From: "Roei Tzoref" Received: from mail-io1-f50.google.com ([209.85.166.50] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7251263 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:48:56 +0100 Received: by mail-io1-f50.google.com with SMTP id e186so12839649ioa.0 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:59:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=/Utg0dGs4hiVSRRyEOqDidnaTKh5FfEuFl94o1MgFSE=; b=XMT0cR44GKVLZuZ2oB+C/Y8/g3Yr75vKT6DaHEGQjRmAe/4gXlYQWy4ZmnE5Jdme2e sK1KwAy5Ypp8AcN/V1ChX8AXbg434QvUWivNeEFGy1vYXq7zy+N1b/elTyX6+6hFjoS/ 4RwY5lIC7yxBRSJqSoJHFOYO6vW70xHUIM5lwBoQxJJjyjP9CA2fJT84XpS65rUj3JoW go5EmDnNY4YUzpoHig2B/ZUym+fRLWGtzp69bT6Eco2VD/hMRYMY/7qyAwjOUoAMuJcF CzpWZf0K6P2mSa2t6Poq9j2sQbifG3Uce7EhfXH9z4AyB6y1FxyclNiGviiuYfJLQ3S7 spKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=/Utg0dGs4hiVSRRyEOqDidnaTKh5FfEuFl94o1MgFSE=; b=pzkOjsHQD8eGwy/jqclLmn+PXau1ELdB+DCP7/N2epFBWyACP31z4hSNCVOFnq0p5X LYzgqC6Ofth8dfeOYvLaGfLaUxn2pxtcINWei44dHSz99KLkqXXsytRui27qKraYLP5W Zonc7r4lYAn1BEC3Z2sj696ZGRZamQPNS1DDJzm3Ibt67gG470dzznFsc6CA5QZDy0yI mIy7Ub75lHfhvTkTTIk+P1U6lLDWW5Th8i8jG7NRhC8OQ4zWHEXomj8xli4Dlw12+RmM exN0ppk1jkbuVznxu4+AAbKV4NIH39tSfVqIIsVvpK6+2K1tJ5OMtareHS5+HQvV/1Bg nqXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAViO/PIShKnItmGVCXQeO2UrFeERmndwdvje3R3MOrYaFrsO6Lh HxGeiJuF+zqzAkUVVaS4HqjIrD8mGfmPxs7ZENu3ooCAO9I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyXoatXj6udkkyufI86co81TyTRoW+ds9QSIYAyWXXYMq+xtScsY9fviGlXLdoh/OINsaKnU6TAWxtTPq3cqeE= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7405:: with SMTP id s5mr1214458iog.1.1551254386712; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:59:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:59:09 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Preferred intermediate image sequence for Ae Pipeline To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad245a0582db8e4d" --000000000000ad245a0582db8e4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Will try Tiff LZW. in Ae DPX does have a 16 bit option: https://imgur.com/a/62tNRhE On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 4:57 Stephen van Vuuren wrote: > You can=E2=80=99t believe everything you read on the internet =F0=9F=98= =89 > > > > I have made over 1,000,000 million 16-bit and 32-bit TIFFs compressed LZW > over the past 14 years on this film and not aware of single one that was > larger than uncompressed. Compression is not super-efficient but it works= . > That=E2=80=99s a user error or software bug =E2=80=93 there have been bug= s in 16-bit LZW > compression but not aware of anything current and certainly never see it. > > > Here=E2=80=99s hard data for you from current tasks. As a control, I made= a 8192 x > 8192 file in Photoshop, 16-bit, black layer and applied 100% gaussian > chromatic noise. > > > > 1. Uncompressed: 393 MB > 2. TIFF LZW: 106 MB > 3. I currently have 19,661 16-bit TIFF files from AE 2019 renders, all > 8192 x 8192. Largest is 347 MB =E2=80=93 very high noise and detail, s= mallest is 1 > MB (all black frame). > > > > So unless you can post results that show a problem with LZW and 16-bit, I > call BS on this. > > > > Stephen > > > > *From:* After Effects Mail List > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:13 PM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] Preferred intermediate image sequence for Ae Pipeline > > > > > > > > On 27 Feb 2019, at 10:00 am, Stephen van Vuuren > wrote: > > > > And I=E2=80=99ve never seen a problem with compressed files larger than o= riginals > =E2=80=93 you need to back that one up with motion footage sequences. Unc= ompressed > anything 6K and 8K frames are massive and would have broken workflows if > LZW compression does not work. > > > > > > I can see how LZW might work OK for mograph elements on a back background= , > but otherwise it=E2=80=99s just not a good algorithm for real-world foota= ge. I > just googled it, here=E2=80=99s the first link that came up. Note the fi= le size > comparison at the bottom as well as the cautionary note: > > > > https://havecamerawilltravel.com/photographer/tiff-image-compression/ > > > > LZW works fine for 8 bit, just not 16bit images. > > > > -Chris > --000000000000ad245a0582db8e4d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Will try Tiff LZW.= in Ae DPX does have a 16 bit option:=C2=A0https://imgur.com/a/62tNRhE


On We= d, 27 Feb 2019 at 4:57 Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
<= /div>

You can=E2=80=99t believe everything you read on the= internet =F0=9F=98=89

=C2=A0

I have made over 1,000,000 million 16-bit and 32-bit= TIFFs compressed LZW over the past 14 years on this film and not aware of = single one that was larger than uncompressed. Compression is not super-effi= cient but it works. That=E2=80=99s a user error or software bug =E2=80=93 there have been bugs in 16-bit LZW compres= sion but not aware of anything current and certainly never see it.


Here=E2=80=99s hard data for you from current tasks. As a control, I made a= 8192 x 8192 file in Photoshop, 16-bit, black layer and applied 100% gaussi= an chromatic noise.

=C2=A0

  1. Uncompressed: 393 MB
  2. TIFF LZW: 106 MB
  3. I currently have 19,661 16-bit TIFF files from AE 2019 ren= ders, all 8192 x 8192. Largest is 347 MB =E2=80=93 very high noise and deta= il, smallest is 1 MB (all black frame).

=C2=A0

So unless you can post results that show a problem w= ith LZW and 16-bit, I call BS on this.

<= div class=3D"gmail-m_-9219322513449693084m_1286877143312817097WordSection1"= >

=C2=A0

Stephen

=C2=A0

From: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:13 PM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Preferred intermediate image sequence for Ae Pipel= ine

=C2=A0

=C2=A0



On 27 Feb 2019, at 10:00 am, Stephen van Vuuren <= AE-List@media-= motion.tv> wrote:

=C2=A0

And I=E2=80=99ve never seen a problem with compresse= d files larger than originals =E2=80=93 you need to back that one up with m= otion footage sequences. Uncompressed anything 6K and 8K frames are massive= and would have broken workflows if LZW =C2=A0compression does not work.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I can see how LZW might work OK for mograph elements= on a back background, but otherwise it=E2=80=99s just not a good algorithm= for real-world footage.=C2=A0 I just googled it, here=E2=80=99s the first = link that came up.=C2=A0 Note the file size comparison at the bottom as well as the cautionary note:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

LZW works fine for 8 bit, just not 16bit images.<= /u>

=C2=A0

-Chris

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