From: "Ross Shain" Received: from mail-qt1-f176.google.com ([209.85.160.176] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7461671 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 01:50:37 +0100 Received: by mail-qt1-f176.google.com with SMTP id o11so21835572qtr.11 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 16:50:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=borisfx.com; s=google; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :references:in-reply-to:to; bh=h4TaGYslPhPexdtGOmh6No8UoJq4KVxJYZYHpV1jZf0=; b=h+nhoASVTeGbFxIG2l+qp7IwYlEKJvLkUEbW1e/bZAhFOWiil6Pyl0kZw2yqUfBGB4 wZfdgVQtdrTKywaLbWvAeItGcikV5wDxZCebiHX5HEZYFUoYY4N6MFH0O/MloHk+tbeT o8WX0qmIV/NVaIslQq3MAqXOqJI4k3FKnwFO2+P7i//jedrZEdRWTPdt1a0b921J8aoQ 1qekiOGysEvf/rJetS7IfrloDnU6r4ij/SYGyhAvkrRZLlsJJI1GwGeHeNtZg+rMfRie mSaVUkex/UUTHaKdDToj+KeaKRcMvd4PH8sF5G4ISznb2dlCXSKKtJTRnO9Lje9gIE50 6GmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; bh=h4TaGYslPhPexdtGOmh6No8UoJq4KVxJYZYHpV1jZf0=; b=PRcK752X4efbvaGwlzGFD/5qXj4hitvRcFFpYdS+L8aEgRF15eghdT/TomLjIsRmDc +9OxIl0KHdqXu1aw9NNyFFzPzCZoYZYv3vc8nNpwUXm41KGnBwPBEgDoKcjzmAshfSQT 2d8ymD1YxTVX9R9UnRGfIk4OWppo376AWSbepuiTHXF7esmxccNOYSCfcLkeQDTuMOH3 +j+F01x6rVQ+TXag5lEpagfN//4mGoc/fbqcfW7Gn/JV0rq6wqtnp5KbCssqKxmS8+DR jxcJWsQsKG3Y4MYnfg9MBvCTwupdsQEvf2Yvr/ExSZ8LRXzB9sGpIO6ER8PxfpjgPti7 51LA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXnIPpv8LcqBoosBs7tYkSH+6uj2XKDrQ4Yc23TXoztcMbMNnpq tjvt3Z8vGWfk9Lp8kDDTNg7oNI6zgkB17pQ7kPuQkF+B7SoVTK5wS9BeUKuT6+DOeRpMAqTn5YZ OsDFJKCfVgMn0hEh/QEl4oHTwbwyfJ5oOgSv/hrxtsIKXx7rajdpVyT3zQ7+ap1TK X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzzWyIzQ5xzqaJ46/JG5vMnGiJ8bhn3WbpQQh+jkt6m2KgtlMP55SbcndCPbmoi7mjX/JsPSg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2fd1:: with SMTP id m17mr15283782qta.51.1572915035459; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 16:50:35 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2604:2000:1103:6350:605d:5112:cb5a:bec3? ([2604:2000:1103:6350:605d:5112:cb5a:bec3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q204sm10125340qke.39.2019.11.04.16.50.33 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Nov 2019 16:50:34 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E10913A8-F87C-46D2-8F43-D8AD74219386 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:50:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [AE] working in stereoscopic 360 Message-Id: <55642109-10A3-4B73-9B72-6471B6AA1666@borisfx.com> References: In-Reply-To: To: After Effects Mail List X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17A878) --Apple-Mail-E10913A8-F87C-46D2-8F43-D8AD74219386 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Mettle conversion tools were acquired by Adobe a few years ago and have b= een included in AE for a while, but do not enable a stereo workflow.=20 Premiere also added some stereo support for 360, so general editing in stere= o top/bottom format is really not complicated. Premiere also includes immers= ive plugins for stereo titling.=20 For masking and tracking, Mocha is really the only stereo 360 solution for A= dobe and we have a patent on stereo planar tracking which enables a stereo m= asking workflow that handles disparity. If you follow this workflow, you ca= n do quite a lot of comping in the top/bottom format, but definitely be prep= ared for lots of precomps. There are a fair amount of Adobe users using this= workflow successfully and you can find many of them on a FB user group call= ed 360 VR Professionals.=20 In my experience the budgets for stereo 360 have collapsed making Nuke + Kar= a VR (plus talent) not affordable for most projects. To get into this you ar= e looking at $5-7k for one license.=20 Years ago the big pain points were stitching And fixing bad stitching errors= . Kara VR was the best tool 4-5 years ago but many of these issues have bee= n resolved by the cameras. Mistika VR is probably the best application these= days for professional stereo 360 stitching and also has tools fir stabiliza= tion and more.=20 Mocha Pro for Adobe is $295 per year. Hope this helps.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Brian Higgins wrote:= >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > To elaborate further, we did some 360 tests and looked into doing stereo 3= 60 work a few years back. All the projects that had VFX and moving cameras h= ad 7 figure budgets and were done by large-ish vfx houses. It's massively mo= re complicated than stereo or single camera. The Cara VR tools were a must h= ave at the time, although I think the Foundry have integrated many of them i= nto the latest release of Nuke in the name of adding low hanging fruit to an= upgrade. >=20 > -b >=20 >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:21 PM David Torno wrot= e: >> I agree with Chris. AE + 360 + Stereoscopic =3D duck and cover. >>=20 >> 360, Stereoscopic I treated just like Maya. I opened it, looked around an= d said f... this, I=E2=80=99m out. Never to look back. :) >>=20 >> The 360 part alone is a nightmare to wrangle in AE. Doubling the nightmar= e with Stereoscopic is inviting the universe over to knock the crap out you.= Lol. >>=20 >> In all seriousness though, AE is not going to hang in there very well sta= bility wise is you are planning on tracking, comping, and doing everyday VFX= . Render times alone on standard 360 footage is insane, and that=E2=80=99s b= efore you do any work on it. >>=20 >> If your only option is AE then as far as I know Mettle is going to be you= r option for handling 360 conversions so you can even do VFX work. For Stere= oscopic you=E2=80=99ll likely have to manually manage the Left and Right top= level comps. The syncing alone between them will be it=E2=80=99s own issue.= You may get interpolation issues if you do any retiming of any kind as that= stuff doesn=E2=80=99t like to carry through all precomps up to the top comp= cleanly sometimes. >>=20 >> Both Stereoscopic and 360 still seem to be a wild west adventure as nobod= y really has locked down a solid AE pipeline in my opinion. You might have t= o pave the way a bit. >>=20 >>=20 >> David Torno >> -------------------- >> https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (experiments & breakdowns) >> https://gumroad.com/davidtorno (products for sale) >> http://provideocoalition.com/author/dtorno (tutorials) >>=20 >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >>=20 >>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Chris Zwar wrote: >>>=20 >>> I was working on my first 360 video last year - mono - and it wasn=E2=80= =99t exactly fun. I was thinking about how it would work in stereo, and alt= hough I might be wrong it looked like you=E2=80=99d be juggling 12 precomps i= n After Effects. If that=E2=80=99s right then really, my first reaction is j= ust =E2=80=9Crun away!" >>>=20 >>>> On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:16 am, mike cardeiro wrot= e: >>>>=20 >>>> I have been playing with 360 stereo video for work. I am trying to get= a workflow going for compositing | tracking | stabilizing in AE >>>> =20 >>>> Almost everything I come across in my searches is for monoscopic 360. D= oes anybody know of any resources to learn how to work with stereoscopic 360= footage in AE? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > brian higgins | creative director > Flavor > ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 kc =E2=80=A2 tyo > 312.706.5500 > brian.higgins@flavor.tv > flavor.tv >=20 --Apple-Mail-E10913A8-F87C-46D2-8F43-D8AD74219386 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Mettle conversion tools were acquired b= y Adobe a few years ago and have been included in AE for a while, but do not= enable a stereo workflow. 

Premiere also added some= stereo support for 360, so general editing in stereo top/bottom format is r= eally not complicated. Premiere also includes immersive plugins for stereo t= itling. 

For masking and tracking, Mocha is re= ally the only stereo 360 solution for Adobe and we have a patent on stereo p= lanar tracking which enables a stereo masking workflow that handles disparit= y.  If you follow this workflow, you can do quite a lot of comping in t= he top/bottom format, but definitely be prepared for lots of precomps. There= are a fair amount of Adobe users using this workflow successfully and you c= an find many of them on a FB user group called 360 VR Professionals. 

In my experience the budgets for stereo 360 have col= lapsed making Nuke + Kara VR (plus talent) not affordable for most projects.= To get into this you are looking at $5-7k for one license. 
=
Years ago the big pain points were stitching And fixing bad s= titching errors. Kara VR was the best tool  4-5 years ago but many of t= hese issues have been resolved by the cameras. Mistika VR is probably the be= st application these days for professional stereo 360 stitching and also has= tools fir stabilization and more. 

Mocha Pro f= or Adobe is $295 per year.

Hope this helps. 

Sent from my iPhone

=
On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Brian Higgins <AE-L= ist@media-motion.tv> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
To elaborate further, we d= id some 360 tests and looked into doing stereo 360 work a few years back. Al= l the projects that had VFX and moving cameras had 7 figure budgets and were= done by large-ish vfx houses. It's massively more complicated than stereo o= r single camera. The Cara VR tools were a must have at the time, although I t= hink the Foundry have integrated many of them into the latest release of Nuk= e in the name of adding low hanging fruit to an upgrade.

= -b

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:21 PM David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
I agree with Chr= is. AE + 360 + Stereoscopic =3D duck and cover.

360, Ster= eoscopic I treated just like Maya. I opened it, looked around and said f... t= his, I=E2=80=99m out. Never to look back. :)

The 360 p= art alone is a nightmare to wrangle in AE. Doubling the nightmare with Stere= oscopic is inviting the universe over to knock the crap out you. Lol.
<= div>
In all seriousness though, AE is not going to hang in the= re very well stability wise is you are planning on tracking, comping, and do= ing everyday VFX. Render times alone on standard 360 footage is insane, and t= hat=E2=80=99s before you do any work on it.

If your= only option is AE then as far as I know Mettle is going to be your option f= or handling 360 conversions so you can even do VFX work. For Stereoscopic yo= u=E2=80=99ll likely have to manually manage the Left and Right top level com= ps. The syncing alone between them will be it=E2=80=99s own issue. You may g= et interpolation issues if you do any retiming of any kind as that stuff doe= sn=E2=80=99t like to carry through all precomps up to the top comp cleanly s= ometimes.

Both Stereoscopic and 360 still seem to be a wild west adve= nture as nobody really has locked down a solid AE pipeline in my opinion. Yo= u might have to pave the way a bit.


David Torno
-----------------= ---
https://vimeo.com/d= avidtorno (experiments & breakdowns)
https://gumroad.com/davidtorno (products for sal= e)

"The most useless day is that i= n which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On N= ov 4, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

=
I was working on my first 360 vid= eo last year - mono - and it wasn=E2=80=99t exactly fun.  I was thinkin= g about how it would work in stereo, and although I might be wrong it looked= like you=E2=80=99d be juggling 12 precomps in After Effects.  If that=E2= =80=99s right then really, my first reaction is just =E2=80=9Crun away!"
=

On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:16 am, mike card= eiro <AE-Lis= t@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I have been playing with 360 st= ereo video for work.  I am trying to get a workflow going for compositi= ng | tracking | stabilizing in AE

 

Almost everything I come across in my searches is f= or monoscopic 360.  Does anybody know of any resources to learn how to w= ork with stereoscopic 360 footage in AE?




--
=

<= span style=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(102,102,102);font-famil= y:Arial;font-size:8pt;white-space:pre-wrap">brian higgins | creative directo= r

Flavor

ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 kc =E2= =80=A2 tyo

312.706.5500

brian.higgins@flavor.tv

flavor.tv


= --Apple-Mail-E10913A8-F87C-46D2-8F43-D8AD74219386--