From: "Brian Higgins" Received: from mail-ot1-f51.google.com ([209.85.210.51] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7461676 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 01:51:43 +0100 Received: by mail-ot1-f51.google.com with SMTP id d5so4118636otp.4 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 16:51:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=flavor-tv.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=F/iZUx+Wd05ffcfPgzu+GyxpGH4KIovYnNxZYMWDyM4=; b=fa+W5P23gvORZDxt2YYJhoAnV+6BytbwCN2SaYlmA2LVvLzOFnqnMYbHXoNC68rBum fBncDZlVhuljm7Q549kVQ1yCUdK9B9uX650AKWhL+XBTjY1ecWhqC60ftpAWk5rBWN65 OK4BoFP7YA3rUbkHI4tVjLj6fYBP9PVMTHk1gAkzxQK/zoFpBNgjOt0UYRTdgsUwkvJ9 eRkbPvpAHpF3ix8zru4gsiMy7Ae/xYReiZhJ6nrQVNJ30fHum4FtOLRJLDo8Gnhl6b2F 4cGTncpGJ903mfPbmRBWjI/m4J1JjD9MSHoqKytC2350esFR58HU5RLuPRd0YlGt+mnw 3msg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=F/iZUx+Wd05ffcfPgzu+GyxpGH4KIovYnNxZYMWDyM4=; b=UWy5kajHbziKZzUcPkQ6IpHwkpfAJH9YFfIjNuXt+QMDylIIEd1mf1DXa0172pg50I Om+XauRyHJgD3u8ID1baX6m1KezzGRJadsYJ/G8XMEuyA8Lba2QDs9npGu3s/nRy8Qoq cS/rUsZ4EMsamROTl+CGuO2c7Fpm6OsUKVixmPwbSp4Zp0EGUEpio4sKzIRq3HCZ4UMG yG7pbdkbkYFNeAWs7uLkllNCvlx4Pj1t8hYWF314SYtrd7kLCAMvpGqJ4Fs+TkZ/yx5N olvnSkXo2jR1gnKuxUPqRD4AP3768QCGeuo9Xl2BbjqeZlzgbQ/tgGgOVfXYncmRGNUj 3Bbw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW+4nIDJULhHkciMSbjnbn0xDDDTpDLbGk/U2KkvNGWWca56Zvo 1W6ZjXPyWjzrNzmGTvuJszt6hoTZoJvbnaUy8a6eBbXaZQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyq11QKSd/R2YZaPM5F+1va/0C9v4Pe8KtulimtOEKRF+Af9iNtdObXyORrSoHQJDqLfkVuXaWi6hUteh70U1U= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:128f:: with SMTP id z15mr1852098otp.285.1572915101997; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 16:51:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 18:51:34 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] working in stereoscopic 360 To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eac20005968ed56f" --000000000000eac20005968ed56f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the update, Ross. Hope you're well! -b On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 6:50 PM Ross Shain wrote: > The Mettle conversion tools were acquired by Adobe a few years ago and > have been included in AE for a while, but do not enable a stereo workflow= . > > Premiere also added some stereo support for 360, so general editing in > stereo top/bottom format is really not complicated. Premiere also include= s > immersive plugins for stereo titling. > > For masking and tracking, Mocha is really the only stereo 360 solution fo= r > Adobe and we have a patent on stereo planar tracking which enables a ster= eo > masking workflow that handles disparity. If you follow this workflow, yo= u > can do quite a lot of comping in the top/bottom format, but definitely be > prepared for lots of precomps. There are a fair amount of Adobe users usi= ng > this workflow successfully and you can find many of them on a FB user gro= up > called 360 VR Professionals. > > In my experience the budgets for stereo 360 have collapsed making Nuke + > Kara VR (plus talent) not affordable for most projects. To get into this > you are looking at $5-7k for one license. > > Years ago the big pain points were stitching And fixing bad stitching > errors. Kara VR was the best tool 4-5 years ago but many of these issues > have been resolved by the cameras. Mistika VR is probably the best > application these days for professional stereo 360 stitching and also has > tools fir stabilization and more. > > Mocha Pro for Adobe is $295 per year. > > Hope this helps. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Brian Higgins wrote= : > > =EF=BB=BF > To elaborate further, we did some 360 tests and looked into doing stereo > 360 work a few years back. All the projects that had VFX and moving camer= as > had 7 figure budgets and were done by large-ish vfx houses. It's massivel= y > more complicated than stereo or single camera. The Cara VR tools were a > must have at the time, although I think the Foundry have integrated many = of > them into the latest release of Nuke in the name of adding low hanging > fruit to an upgrade. > > -b > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:21 PM David Torno > wrote: > >> I agree with Chris. AE + 360 + Stereoscopic =3D duck and cover. >> >> 360, Stereoscopic I treated just like Maya. I opened it, looked around >> and said f... this, I=E2=80=99m out. Never to look back. :) >> >> The 360 part alone is a nightmare to wrangle in AE. Doubling the >> nightmare with Stereoscopic is inviting the universe over to knock the c= rap >> out you. Lol. >> >> In all seriousness though, AE is not going to hang in there very well >> stability wise is you are planning on tracking, comping, and doing every= day >> VFX. Render times alone on standard 360 footage is insane, and that=E2= =80=99s >> before you do any work on it. >> >> If your only option is AE then as far as I know Mettle is going to be >> your option for handling 360 conversions so you can even do VFX work. Fo= r >> Stereoscopic you=E2=80=99ll likely have to manually manage the Left and = Right top >> level comps. The syncing alone between them will be it=E2=80=99s own iss= ue. You may >> get interpolation issues if you do any retiming of any kind as that stuf= f >> doesn=E2=80=99t like to carry through all precomps up to the top comp cl= eanly >> sometimes. >> >> Both Stereoscopic and 360 still seem to be a wild west adventure as >> nobody really has locked down a solid AE pipeline in my opinion. You mig= ht >> have to pave the way a bit. >> >> >> David Torno >> -------------------- >> https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (experiments & breakdowns) >> https://gumroad.com/davidtorno (products for sale) >> http://provideocoalition.com/author/dtorno (tutorials) >> >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >> >> On Nov 4, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Chris Zwar wrote: >> >> I was working on my first 360 video last year - mono - and it wasn=E2=80= =99t >> exactly fun. I was thinking about how it would work in stereo, and >> although I might be wrong it looked like you=E2=80=99d be juggling 12 pr= ecomps in >> After Effects. If that=E2=80=99s right then really, my first reaction i= s just =E2=80=9Crun >> away!" >> >> On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:16 am, mike cardeiro wrote= : >> >> I have been playing with 360 stereo video for work. I am trying to get = a >> workflow going for compositing | tracking | stabilizing in AE >> >> >> Almost everything I come across in my searches is for monoscopic 360. >> Does anybody know of any resources to learn how to work with stereoscopi= c >> 360 footage in AE? >> >> >> > > -- > > brian higgins | creative director > > Flavor > > ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 kc =E2=80=A2 tyo > > 312.706.5500 > > brian.higgins@flavor.tv > > flavor.tv > > --=20 brian higgins | creative director Flavor ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 kc =E2=80=A2 tyo 312.706.5500 brian.higgins@flavor.tv flavor.tv --000000000000eac20005968ed56f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the update, Ross. Hope you're well!
-b

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 6:50 PM Ross Shain <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:<= br>
The Mettle conversion tools were acquired by Adobe a few years ago and ha= ve been included in AE for a while, but do not enable a stereo workflow.=C2= =A0

Premiere also added some stereo support for 360, so = general editing in stereo top/bottom format is really not complicated. Prem= iere also includes immersive plugins for stereo titling.=C2=A0
For masking and tracking, Mocha is really the only stereo 360 = solution for Adobe and we have a patent on stereo planar tracking which ena= bles a stereo masking workflow that handles disparity.=C2=A0 If you follow = this workflow, you can do quite a lot of comping in the top/bottom format, = but definitely be prepared for lots of precomps. There are a fair amount of= Adobe users using this workflow successfully and you can find many of them= on a FB user group called 360 VR Professionals.=C2=A0

=
In my experience the budgets for stereo 360 have collapsed making Nuke= + Kara VR (plus talent) not affordable for most projects. To get into this= you are looking at $5-7k for one license.=C2=A0

Y= ears ago the big pain points were stitching And fixing bad stitching errors= . Kara VR was the best tool =C2=A04-5 years ago but many of these issues ha= ve been resolved by the cameras. Mistika VR is probably the best applicatio= n these days for professional stereo 360 stitching and also has tools fir s= tabilization and more.=C2=A0

Mocha Pro for Adobe i= s $295 per year.

Hope this helps.=C2=A0
=
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Brian Higgins <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
To elaborate further, we did some 360 te= sts and looked into doing stereo 360 work a few years back. All the project= s that had VFX and moving cameras had 7 figure budgets and were done by lar= ge-ish vfx houses. It's massively more complicated than stereo or singl= e camera. The Cara VR tools were a must have at the time, although I think = the Foundry have integrated many of them into the latest release of Nuke in= the name of adding low hanging fruit to an upgrade.

-b<= /div>

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:21 PM David Torno <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote= :
I agree with Chris. AE + 360 + Stereoscopic =3D duck and cover.
360, Stereoscopic I treated just like Maya. I opened it, looked= around and said f... this, I=E2=80=99m out. Never to look back. :)

The 360 part alone is a nightmare to wrangle in AE. Doublin= g the nightmare with Stereoscopic is inviting the universe over to knock th= e crap out you. Lol.

In all seriousness though, AE= is not going to hang in there very well stability wise is you are planning= on tracking, comping, and doing everyday VFX. Render times alone on standa= rd 360 footage is insane, and that=E2=80=99s before you do any work on it.<= /div>

If your only option is AE then as far as I know Me= ttle is going to be your option for handling 360 conversions so you can eve= n do VFX work. For Stereoscopic you=E2=80=99ll likely have to manually mana= ge the Left and Right top level comps. The syncing alone between them will = be it=E2=80=99s own issue. You may get interpolation issues if you do any r= etiming of any kind as that stuff doesn=E2=80=99t like to carry through all= precomps up to the top comp cleanly sometimes.

Both Stereoscopic an= d 360 still seem to be a wild west adventure as nobody really has locked do= wn a solid AE pipeline in my opinion. You might have to pave the way a bit.=


David Torno
--------------------
https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (experiments &am= p; breakdowns)

"The most useless day is that in which we do no= t laugh"
-Charles Field

On Nov 4, 20= 19, at 2:18 PM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I was working on my first 360 video la= st year - mono - and it wasn=E2=80=99t exactly fun.=C2=A0 I was thinking ab= out how it would work in stereo, and although I might be wrong it looked li= ke you=E2=80=99d be juggling 12 precomps in After Effects.=C2=A0 If that=E2= =80=99s right then really, my first reaction is just =E2=80=9Crun away!&quo= t;

On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:16 am, mi= ke cardeiro <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I have been playin= g with 360 stereo video for work.=C2=A0 I am trying to get a workflow going= for compositing | tracking | stabilizing in AE

=C2=A0

Almost everything I come across= in my searches is for monoscopic 360.=C2=A0 Does anybody know of any resou= rces to learn how to work with stereoscopic 360 footage in AE?
<= br>

=


--
=

= brian higgins | creative dire= ctor

Flavor

ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2= =80=A2 kc =E2=80=A2 tyo

312.706.5500

brian.higgins@flavor.tv

flavor.tv=



--
=

brian higgins | creative director

Flavor<= /p>

ny= =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 kc =E2=80=A2 tyo=

3= 12.706.5500

brian.higgins@flavor.tv

flavor.tv


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