From: "mike cardeiro" Received: from sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.146] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7461743 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:52:08 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1572958326; bh=R0KKrfvgcTLkrOoOvEv0o1oaHx5+xKP2y+1PQqykOlY=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=eNCx0pp5AVmPiusjU+0pQQe05QRCHG731prQfYqr6vrcLPZAR3y5/1uE0JzNj0YKVCrnrkP6v59tXE8Z6xrTgr7uwmsA9+ZeVRAcpkmEBrq0nmmTBLYSuIDkCEv0TYPt0PLtKKt3+Br4tH/1wwMwi6PvbEO7HbFWJ2b2mLkRs6uFi7muYWtRtHv53uYSzT3+ZpNrNkOug6k5bTvpkccVG2kOkl6iVuZnarVWrm3T0iseg+59hgMroIuNsHqypc6r2rnul+WIPE48+B5QDVCgy6d6cvi+vuuFJK9nAfTlwr5OGx0R4qcBpd5rPT5mxNjR/VCO5li4/57D58m4aYsK0w== X-YMail-OSG: ho4WQpUVM1n95S9M7QsoTDpVtopSQXTGCuRgfPoDaPdftAz7e4TK97w2WtzyzEA 2RYsoWamRJCZ6dm_3J3NberZQCADkZABsMPJwErmxS.IahJkYJWOOU.eGwIniqZIWYnWXnG.Zfvg Y_KqIG4fW4NLJrsMsKyg9egcBNfkmDCNNzADcIBFRjHEUlPIZQS4JoNnr.Kxg3RZn5a9s0.iji.D qz5werbJXjy76G0KmY06aZOn4Vk7.AnaFIK2Hm7pf6i3NTi2YVSDwzgxGAZre_qBqbmRc3fg7oJ9 qBY.hETeiwMywMJ2JPcH1zMrLEYcHFQTkYRPfrzOiWMQJ0xOhmtnh3dTq2NoEfnMK43O.qAgeeVv NfFB0Zaysv1P5YthDfKKCo_.TDFVrv6lngIxPSq8m5an89gEJhexs.kjGHf7qwb0yP1mm4RF2hVC qIarv4BAXTJdH0i06TvkVCVSuOuq_0IveppEE7cXijLBpM74nb1sB_nyIPFyNBbmqeQKRL9QDnB9 vv_jRRoEX7y2HYSwePqYRNI9wxPqNwFQfZgLZppR_psa59Lbcyqs7ZgMgcA3D1o1bFJzL5I4XMSh ghh0DkCLYBtmcvtn4bhztH7dYpLsitnlrp659z1BtdKOjFRhphI1MNC.9NBNWcSw8NgOOqvU708l ge3i_xbqWCZpFoh0cuLryCS5SLiIjXWJRAeJPdCJvNY9PVJLU_lztk.xPtbzHXZp0mFuvJLsHla6 AyOcywQDsVmtSJ_kENQIqTM1n3yZlJgUx8y8zzM46_in0bIeqtfrnPnoNs9TTM0V.EpyXHMD2zEp 2tK3QeSaBx6ZHxmVZPEjG9harnbTh3b4LWy8HMbnbNulZtxfFlVp64vzUc_u2zcV.Ag301qnFwky brOb_14NQawBYJ5lwLF1zWiTo2mC4G.LFcVL7TBbHbq_s9bzQxI7p8DamSzq3hIWcv2FK7jPD2Bs VzbhCwR9F49CUbprb7rWgioe1Dj7WIYFXEanOMdTw1OdrNj6jxcIlZJqTbl6uJjyM1SSWX5B_PBu CDjp99KumJ6vq.Mm2ZoyN4WUWXySvJjR9tucBV8_e1iIncTMQb2vB5jKUejmV4Axs21L1DJ.M_7c ita2IxYdOA61BbTxxz4A1VKvqrQ1zCz6znebobHRcb8S8Kr4TnT3q3snvggxfDaA6nXDrycJ5RUY m0_on96B4qzirUbzgl1fdR2WG0GEv5KI5QJ3FDNq_BTZnZd9WxaaABtp7BFMNdkg2cA0gwm4LjpN n.El0NNx67RuSomgtNQxj_grQTI9MCk9W.aGLob4Pb4_WaHAEptvV_QDOnkxoiUV8fnUG7If2xa3 b_CDj6c_fmDvRUGZ2udMaKft3oTOWqW8MLp6OkpYnoNmFCbGNtWAanTnzjUrBwbKF Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:52:06 +0000 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: "mcardeiro@yahoo.com" To: After Effects Mail List Message-ID: <998522283.1777918.1572958325253@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [AE] working in stereoscopic 360 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1777917_1133619405.1572958325250" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14638 YahooMailAndroidMobile YMobile/1.0 (com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail/6.0.13; Android/10; QP1A.191005.007.A1; walleye; Google; Pixel 2; 4.73; 1794x1080;) Content-Length: 17514 ------=_Part_1777917_1133619405.1572958325250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Awesome, thanks for all the replies! Monoscopic is not an option (would be like shooting in black and white 480p= when you can have color 1080) I've always wanted to learn Nuke but definitely don't have the budget or ti= me to learn. Mocha sounds like it might be a good solution. Thanks again, all the input has been amazing! Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android=20 =20 On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 7:50 PM, Ross Shain wrote= : The Mettle conversion tools were acquired by Adobe a few years ago and = have been included in AE for a while, but do not enable a stereo workflow.= =C2=A0 Premiere also added some stereo support for 360, so general editing in ster= eo top/bottom format is really not complicated. Premiere also includes imme= rsive plugins for stereo titling.=C2=A0 For masking and tracking, Mocha is really the only stereo 360 solution for = Adobe and we have a patent on stereo planar tracking which enables a stereo= masking workflow that handles disparity. =C2=A0If you follow this workflow= , you can do quite a lot of comping in the top/bottom format, but definitel= y be prepared for lots of precomps. There are a fair amount of Adobe users = using this workflow successfully and you can find many of them on a FB user= group called 360 VR Professionals.=C2=A0 In my experience the budgets for stereo 360 have collapsed making Nuke + Ka= ra VR (plus talent) not affordable for most projects. To get into this you = are looking at $5-7k for one license.=C2=A0 Years ago the big pain points were stitching And fixing bad stitching error= s. Kara VR was the best tool =C2=A04-5 years ago but many of these issues h= ave been resolved by the cameras. Mistika VR is probably the best applicati= on these days for professional stereo 360 stitching and also has tools fir = stabilization and more.=C2=A0 Mocha Pro for Adobe is $295 per year. Hope this helps.=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Brian Higgins wrote: =EF=BB=BFTo elaborate further, we did some 360 tests and looked into doing = stereo 360 work a few years back. All the projects that had VFX and moving = cameras had 7 figure budgets and were done by large-ish vfx houses. It's ma= ssively more complicated than stereo or single camera. The Cara VR tools we= re a must have at the time, although I think the Foundry have integrated ma= ny of them into the latest release of Nuke in the name of adding low hangin= g fruit to an upgrade. -b On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:21 PM David Torno wrote: I agree with Chris. AE + 360 + Stereoscopic =3D duck and cover. 360, Stereoscopic I treated just like Maya. I opened it, looked around and = said f... this, I=E2=80=99m out. Never to look back. :) The 360 part alone is a nightmare to wrangle in AE. Doubling the nightmare = with Stereoscopic is inviting the universe over to knock the crap out you. = Lol. In all seriousness though, AE is not going to hang in there very well stabi= lity wise is you are planning on tracking, comping, and doing everyday VFX.= Render times alone on standard 360 footage is insane, and that=E2=80=99s b= efore you do any work on it. If your only option is AE then as far as I know Mettle is going to be your = option for handling 360 conversions so you can even do VFX work. For Stereo= scopic you=E2=80=99ll likely have to manually manage the Left and Right top= level comps. The syncing alone between them will be it=E2=80=99s own issue= . You may get interpolation issues if you do any retiming of any kind as th= at stuff doesn=E2=80=99t like to carry through all precomps up to the top c= omp cleanly sometimes. Both Stereoscopic and 360 still seem to be a wild west adventure as nobody = really has locked down a solid AE pipeline in my opinion. You might have to= pave the way a bit. David Torno--------------------https://vimeo.com/davidtorno (experiments & = breakdowns)https://gumroad.com/davidtorno (products for sale)http://provide= ocoalition.com/author/dtorno (tutorials) "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"-Charles Field On Nov 4, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Chris Zwar wrote: I was working on my first 360 video last year - mono - and it wasn=E2=80=99= t exactly fun.=C2=A0 I was thinking about how it would work in stereo, and = although I might be wrong it looked like you=E2=80=99d be juggling 12 preco= mps in After Effects.=C2=A0 If that=E2=80=99s right then really, my first r= eaction is just =E2=80=9Crun away!" On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:16 am, mike cardeiro wrote: I have been playing with 360 stereo video for work.=C2=A0 I am trying to ge= t a workflow going for compositing | tracking | stabilizing in AE =C2=A0 Almost everything I come across in my searches is for monoscopic 360.=C2=A0= Does anybody know of any resources to learn how to work with stereoscopic = 360 footage in AE? --=20 brian higgins | creative director Flavor ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 kc =E2=80=A2 tyo 312.706.5500 brian.higgins@flavor.tv flavor.tv =20 ------=_Part_1777917_1133619405.1572958325250 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Awesome, thanks for all the replies!

Monoscopic is not an option (would be like shooting in black and white 48= 0p when you can have color 1080)

I've always wanted to learn Nuke but definitely don't have the budget o= r time to learn.
=
Mocha sounds= like it might be a good solution.

Thanks again, all the input has been amazing!


=
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 7:50 PM, Ross S= hain
<AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
The Mettle conversion tools were ac= quired by Adobe a few years ago and have been included in AE for a while, b= ut do not enable a stereo workflow. 

Premiere also added some stereo support for 360, so general editing in ste= reo top/bottom format is really not complicated. Premiere also includes imm= ersive plugins for stereo titling. 

For masking and tracking, Mocha is really the only stereo 360 solutio= n for Adobe and we have a patent on stereo planar tracking which enables a = stereo masking workflow that handles disparity.  If you follow this wo= rkflow, you can do quite a lot of comping in the top/bottom format, but def= initely be prepared for lots of precomps. There are a fair amount of Adobe = users using this workflow successfully and you can find many of them on a F= B user group called 360 VR Professionals. 

In my experience the budgets for stereo 360 have collapsed mak= ing Nuke + Kara VR (plus talent) not affordable for most projects. To get i= nto this you are looking at $5-7k for one license. 

Years ago the big pain points were stitching And fixi= ng bad stitching errors. Kara VR was the best tool  4-5 years ago but = many of these issues have been resolved by the cameras. Mistika VR is proba= bly the best application these days for professional stereo 360 stitching a= nd also has tools fir stabilization and more. 

Mocha Pro for Adobe is $295 per year.

Hope this helps. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Brian Higgins <AE= -List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
To elaborate further, we did some 360 tests and looked into doing = stereo 360 work a few years back. All the projects that had VFX and moving = cameras had 7 figure budgets and were done by large-ish vfx houses. It's ma= ssively more complicated than stereo or single camera. The Cara VR tools we= re a must have at the time, although I think the Foundry have integrated ma= ny of them into the latest release of Nuke in the name of adding low hangin= g fruit to an upgrade.

-b

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:21 PM David To= rno <AE-Lis= t@media-motion.tv> wrote:
I agree with Chris. AE = + 360 + Stereoscopic =3D duck and cover.

= 360, Stereoscopic I treated just like Maya. I opened it, looked around and = said f... this, I=E2=80=99m out. Never to look back. :)
<= div>
The 360 part alone is a nightmare to wran= gle in AE. Doubling the nightmare with Stereoscopic is inviting the univers= e over to knock the crap out you. Lol.

<= div>In all seriousness though, AE is not going to hang in there very well s= tability wise is you are planning on tracking, comping, and doing everyday = VFX. Render times alone on standard 360 footage is insane, and that=E2=80= =99s before you do any work on it.

= If your only option is AE then as far as I know Mettle is going to be your = option for handling 360 conversions so you can even do VFX work. For Stereo= scopic you=E2=80=99ll likely have to manually manage the Left and Right top= level comps. The syncing alone between them will be it=E2=80=99s own issue= . You may get interpolation issues if you do any retiming of any kind as th= at stuff doesn=E2=80=99t like to carry through all precomps up to the top c= omp cleanly sometimes.

Both Stereoscop= ic and 360 still seem to be a wild west adventure as nobody really has lock= ed down a solid AE pipeline in my opinion. You might have to pave the way a= bit.


David Torno
---------= -----------
https://vimeo= .com/davidtorno (experiments & breakdowns)
https://gumroad.com/davidtorno (products fo= r sale)

"The m= ost useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Nov 4, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Chris Zwar <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I was working on my first 360 video last year - mono - and it wasn= =E2=80=99t exactly fun.  I was thinking about how it would work in ste= reo, and although I might be wrong it looked like you=E2=80=99d be juggling= 12 precomps in After Effects.  If that=E2=80=99s right then really, m= y first reaction is just =E2=80=9Crun away!"

On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:16 am, mike = cardeiro <A= E-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I have bee= n playing with 360 stereo video for work.  I am trying to get a workfl= ow going for compositing | tracking | stabilizing in AE

 

Almost everything I c= ome across in my searches is for monoscopic 360.  Does anybody know of= any resources to learn how to work with stereoscopic 360 footage in AE?




--
=

brian higgins | creative director

Flavor

ny =E2=80=A2 chi =E2=80=A2 la =E2=80=A2 det =E2=80=A2 = kc =E2=80=A2 tyo

312.706.5500

brian.higgins@flavor.tv

flavor.tv


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