From: "Dennis Wilkins" Received: from se5c-lax1.servconfig.com ([173.231.200.190] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7476766 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:55:36 +0100 Received: from biz127.inmotionhosting.com ([74.124.215.139]) by se5-lax1.servconfig.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iekfO-000oaY-QR for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:55:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=reelsolutions.com; s=default; h=Message-Id:In-Reply-To:To:References:Date: Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=CNEPgYj19ZrPZRr/OSYV4kGGxQs4dInV5apHA2JQWt8=; b=fc3uF+/dsQH04Q0Qar4dmg9OY o6mzVrJaCQ7LyoiaSUDNqp0hjRFT6wK7XA6J97MOQp18pMUzAHDG/fQ0bvGqwWM4ZQXYmH10O/T66 Tr4agM76/3QAaGWCyuto+x5uBNslGL4WG2NEcTJLNqaMZXSDrRY5gfi0G3Jaujm142kDQ=; Received: from [73.162.54.113] (port=64138 helo=[192.168.1.92]) by biz127.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iekfA-005T30-Kx for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:55:26 -0800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9B6F9D1D-01D6-408E-B3D6-697FFFD4BA60" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new MacPro tomorrow. Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 10:55:11 -0800 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <511F18F3-2542-4EF6-BEA5-6E73615EA042@reelsolutions.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz127.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: dennis@reelsolutions.com X-Authenticated-Sender: biz127.inmotionhosting.com: dennis@reelsolutions.com X-Originating-IP: 74.124.215.139 X-SpamExperts-Domain: biz127.inmotionhosting.com X-SpamExperts-Username: 74.124.215.139 Authentication-Results: servconfig.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=74.124.215.139@biz127.inmotionhosting.com X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.29) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0fi3oD8HEy9ysrsB6Ile+oipSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhV1NM3u/INFd+Q 331oHJT9ukTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDSZ07zKgM8PW4UTfIro0akdlc 87bL9Te2rDLk4pXZSNhrxIc4GE1yTWIvYeRplNEF4pWx7WxWFZpsjT/483ewgnBpqZvo8S/Elh6D JFe855BQnNIVIGV7K3onN9v18vhsyyWTtSpU+pNaNZPOHqxTQwzny1soUtF/gJP2ILEwXs86aEwy hy3C6V/EM0h4ypKzFY8k1WG3OMoOaVGt2zSTlBmYvSRMYhU3cO2EzUHwVXEwQzgH3ZUltkgdVMpa zhNDPjwfaB2rE/S2BhQBkwlK0UgKCrov1GasWV1vj2C+0pcXuAT86WptVNwo/cWcelODMVhfRAfm ME3CBgei5d0ipWZHuZ2luxkemtGoNxZUQqTo/wKPvFA5qTwvBasVtSz0+GLmTxWe+hgCfcvqbJXv CF4SsPFbHl5M2qttttfoL/G/8I9Xzgq64xIOSIrKbwsPceAUju/P9oWWMV2b9i9ni6B8lTw+8Bla jhHdQsU8wHf74mH97WhFdFTc9QEFKKvNJl5t1XhfOXQ2Jbk57oVre8nbIV1VIcJ9LYov1EuZaZds WVrkkI+NmPAWM0c9AlkK0XTEN0mK1XKkVtLQvKxa2ACdu9P1paYKKN/0i7uESfHQC3Hy7EnQ0I8d 2CUPcI6ZL31w3W00Q2VgPTg0IbRZGFYFFTddm9QrX4oe+PynZ9pq3v4bAQcc0dGcS3B2fXTo1Ff5 8SYyA/UqyjOtPWeknKv9jlOoWnSAAOApLGw/Mi7gulf2oHATLJTq60Ipqth2Cyt63jw0wMZcZNXm FdPLZfUf9oDBqtClgM5jH/om1Q6ubB/S/BYxMi5XJtKyH2VvRGW6pJFadZa7ZSYiru5yKt40eTXl WiUAYdLmsJdAoPJZ7y/TT+EEouLclp9S33/m1HowM8CUnIiBu8PvXfSXNSLKqI/nRSDHXwsL5nbs t+6FFaFpOGpbHTD/6JEdm7xzMAqjcC/uJwC7plYnf3h+EQ== X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@se1-lax1.servconfig.com --Apple-Mail=_9B6F9D1D-01D6-408E-B3D6-697FFFD4BA60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks for your suggestions Stephen - I=E2=80=99ll definitely check out = Quicklook again - last time I tried it it didn=E2=80=99t support = EXR=E2=80=99s. I=E2=80=99ll take definitely take a look at Switch.=20 I=E2=80=99ll also take a look at Opus - I hadn=E2=80=99t heard of that = one before. Of course I=E2=80=99m aware that Adobe apps (and ffmpeg plus others) can = decode and create ProRes files. I was talking about the difficulty in = previewing renders quickly after having created them. It doesn=E2=80=99t = really appeal to me to have really fast computers that I have to jump = through hoops to do simple things that I do all day long. (Like render = to sequences and then re-render with an audio track, my deadlines often = won=E2=80=99t allow for that anyway). Currently I use PC=E2=80=99s for 3D because that=E2=80=99s what they = excel at (for me), and I use Macs for AE, Premiere (a little), Resolve = (some), Mocha, Adobe stuff, and everything else. It works pretty well as = I can be animating/compositing/finishing while the PC=E2=80=99s are = rendering and I can use the Mac where I prefer it.=20 AE in my experience will use as much RAM as you can throw at it - = otherwise it doesn=E2=80=99t seem to utilize more than one GPU and = doesn't use multi-CPU=E2=80=99s efficiently so I=E2=80=99m not sure PC = performance is really relevant; it uses a computer in exactly the = opposite way C4D and most other 3D apps do which can max GPU=E2=80=99s = and CPU=E2=80=99s and don=E2=80=99t need nearly as much RAM. So even = with everything else considered, it kind of makes sense to have = different computers optimized for each task anyway. The "only one company=E2=80=9D comment applies to both PC and Mac as far = as I=E2=80=99m concerned; all of the PC vendors are reliant on Windows. = Hardware choices are only part of the equation in my opinion. Lastly, I just saw those prices=E2=80=A6. Those CPU=E2=80=99s are = pricey. The GPUs might be interesting with as much RAM as they have (and = the fact that you can link them), but I=E2=80=99m not dropping that kind = of money until I have some cold hard numbers. Dennis Wilkins | c o d e - c o l l e c t i ve =20 > On Dec 10, 2019, at 7:55 AM, Stephen van Vuuren = wrote: >=20 > Dennis, > =20 > Windows OS will never be Mac OS and vice versa. But you can get 99% of = either on either. I move back and forth between both every day (primary = laptop is Apple, primary desktops are Windows). To your points. > =20 > Quicklook. I don=E2=80=99t know if does all EXRs, but it does all the = production files I used: = https://lifehacker.com/how-to-get-apples-quick-look-feature-in-windows-10-= 1827277007 = > ProRes: Vegas, Adobe and others deliver native. Media Encoder has it = so it=E2=80=99s actually simple (and much faster than on any Mac with a = top NVidia GPU to go image sequence to ProRes. Davinci is coming = supposedly but Fusion already has it. AfterCodecs is there. I=E2=80=99ve = been creating problem free ProRes on Windows for years now. > lightweight, quick to open video player for the PC that allows easy = previewing of video files that can step through a video frame by frame = (and playback ProRes files. Scratch Player sucks ass. Switch rocks. And = Quicklook above works great with it. = http://www.telestream.net/switch/overview.htm = > Apple support. I=E2=80=99ve not own dozens of Macs over the years, = only a half dozen. Two died hard motherboard deaths but they were 7 = years old, but that=E2=80=99s average for a computer. Two required tech = support from Apple. Both times underwhelming. If you buy a Windows box = and want Apple like support, you buy something like a Dell Precision = Workstation with Premium support which offers options like 4 hour same = day hardware replacement onsite which is simply not an option with = Apple. You have to haul your box to them (hopefully they are close and = open and lose your machine to downtime). Or a boutique shop like Puget = Systems. Apple is hardly the only company in the world with reasonable = support options. And they are not perfect anymore than any other good = company. > =20 > As for your point there is no =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80=9D computer for = everyone, it should be balanced by the fact that Apple is only one = company. For a Windows box you have the choice of many, many as well as = building your own. That simply leaves Apple=E2=80=99s side with all = sorts of negatives > =20 > Stephen > =20 > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List >=20 > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 2:31 AM > To: After Effects Mail List > > Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new MacPro tomorrow. > =20 > My opinion is that there is no =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80=99 computer (or = platform) for everyone in this industry - use cases and users vary quite = a bit. >=20 > As far as the new Mac Pro goes, I=E2=80=99m withholding judgment until = I see how Redshift, Octane and Unity work in their Metal incarnations on = the new machines. It has 4 double-wide full-length PCI slots so in = theory 4 off the shelf GPUs will fit (if anyone can convince Nvidia to = change their mind on discontinuing development on the Mac I have money = to spend)=E2=80=A6These apps/renderers are what drove me to build two = high-end PC=E2=80=99s in the past 2-3 years. I only use the PC=E2=80=99s = for 3D because Windows doesn=E2=80=99t do what I want or need it to and = I find it inferior in general for doing motion graphics projects. > =20 > The reason for that are the following workflow issues using Windows = (and I=E2=80=99d love to hear solutions for these if people have them): >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Quick Look replacement that can view all of the common = production graphics files the Mac can in the finder/explorer window = (including EXR=E2=80=99s). I=E2=80=99ve tried all the apps I can find = and wasted a lot of man-hours looking for anything even close. It = doesn=E2=80=99t exist as far as I can tell. I can search, preview, open = and playback source files far quicker on the Mac than I can on Windows = and I do that constantly. (I=E2=80=99ve tried SEER which kind of works = except it=E2=80=99s slow and doesn=E2=80=99t support EXR=E2=80=99s - so = it actually doesn=E2=80=99t work=E2=80=A6) > =20 > =E2=80=A2 ProRes - I can count on one hand the projects I=E2=80=99ve = delivered in the past 5 years that didn=E2=80=99t require ProRes for at = least one of the deliverables. (This is overwhelmingly my clients = decision for final deliverables including two of the top PC = manufacturers). IMHO it=E2=80=99s the best video codec available for = final delivery, archiving, playback, = etc...(Broadcast/Commercial/Corporate). I know there are ways of viewing = and creating ProRes files on the PC but most of them have had issues and = trying to quickly QC a final deliverable isn=E2=80=99t nearly as easy as = on a Mac. > =20 > =E2=80=A2 QuickTime - I can=E2=80=99t believe I=E2=80=99m calling out = QuickTime X as a pro for Mac because other than performance in playing = back H264=E2=80=99s it=E2=80=99s a real step backwards from QuickTime 7 = but I don=E2=80=99t know of any lightweight, quick to open video player = for the PC that allows easy previewing of video files that can step = through a video frame by frame (and playback ProRes files). On Windows = I=E2=80=99m currently using Assimilate SCRATCH Play Premium for video = files and EXR=E2=80=99s but it looks like they=E2=80=99ve discontinued = it and it=E2=80=99s really more than I want or need to just preview = files anyway. > =20 > =E2=80=A2 One company to deal with: If I have an issue with a Mac, I = call Apple; they deal with it - no finger pointing, no what drivers are = you using? etc. nightmare. I had a power supply go out in a Mac Pro that = was 3-4 years outside of warranty in 2008-2010. My guess is they = didn=E2=80=99t have the power supply in stock any longer so they offered = to give me a brand new base level Mac Pro in exchange; I asked if I = could pay the difference and get a high end one and they happily = obliged. I=E2=80=99ll subtract about 4K off of any perceived Apple tax = right there. With the machines I build, it=E2=80=99s totally up to me to = figure out any issues which sucks and takes me away from what I get paid = pretty well to do. (I=E2=80=99ve owned Dells and it doesn=E2=80=99t get = much easier in that case - there=E2=80=99s still the = Hardware/Software/Driver dance you may have to deal with). I don=E2=80=99t= particularly enjoy building or fixing PC=E2=80=99s - I have other = hobbies=E2=80=A6=20 >=20 > There=E2=80=99s more that I could point out but these are the ones I = constantly bump up against using Windows PC's. >=20 > I like Gary=E2=80=99s analogy of European VS domestic or Japanese cars = and feel that it=E2=80=99s quite relevant (even though I currently drive = a Ford truck)... >=20 > Lastly, in this thread I see a few comments about the Mac Pro = =E2=80=9Ctrash-can=E2=80=9D being unreliable but mine has not had a = single issue; I ordered it the first day they were available and it=E2=80=99= s been running nearly 24/7 since early 2014 (often running C4D renders = with 24 threads pegged for days at a time)=E2=80=A6 > =20 > =20 > Dennis Wilkins > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Dec 9, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = > wrote: > =20 > > Apple computers may have a higher initial cost than a =E2=80=9Cwhite = box=E2=80=9D machine, but especially if they were top spec to begin = with, their resale value usually makes up and more for the cost = differential > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t think this math holds up based on my experience with = selling used Macs and high end used DIY built boxes used for ISR. Mac = asking prices for used are higher but actual sold prices are not that = high. And I routinely get 7+ years out of DIY PC boxes which is exactly = what I got out of my Mac Mini. These components inside are not wildly = different here in MTF and Apple thermals are more problematic on more = recent machines. >=20 > Yes, a crappy PC box or notebook that was crappy to begin with is = going to be worth zilch in 3 years. But I sold 2012 and 2013 render = boxes that cost around $2K to build for about $600 to $700. I got a $450 = for my late 2012 Mac Mini that was $900 (with keyboard and mouse) + 16GB = of RAM and $1TB SSD (2013 prices on those parts), just shy of $1500. =20 > =20 > My 2018 MacBook Pro seems to be holding about same depreciation as = Dell XPS machines so I don=E2=80=99t see the numbers to justify it from = a TCO. > =20 > Best, > =20 > stephen van vuuren > 336.202.4777 > =20 > http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ > http://www.sv2dcp.com/ > http://www.sv2studios.com/ > =20 > A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 more like music than like = fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, = what=E2=80=99s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. > =E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick > =20 > From: After Effects Mail List >=20 > Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 7:52 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > > Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new MacPro tomorrow. > =20 > The important thing to consider, cost-wise, is the TCO - Total Cost of = Ownership. Apple computers may have a higher initial cost than a = =E2=80=9Cwhite box=E2=80=9D machine, but especially if they were top = spec to begin with, their resale value usually makes up and more for the = cost differential. For example, I expect to get 60% of retail for a 2yo = machine still under AppleCare. But even if I keep it - I=E2=80=99m in = the process of retiring a 2012 MBP that=E2=80=99s still quite usable, = mainly because the projects I=E2=80=99m doing now require the 64GB of = RAM and top GPU in my new 16=E2=80=9D MBP. That=E2=80=99s a 7yo machine, = still turning out shots. I don=E2=80=99t think it owes me anything. > =20 > I=E2=80=99m looking on eBay at prices for used Dell and HP laptops. = Pretty sad, though I guess one could make the point that one gets to = keep the price difference right away rather than getting it back on = resale. > =20 > =20 > =20 > Tim Sassoon > SFD > Venice, CA > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Dec 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, Gary Reisman > wrote: > =20 > Some people to have no problems buying new $40k+ European cars that = drop $10k in value in a few years, just to drive to and from work most = of the time a few hours out of the week, when they could easily spend = half on a decent domestic or Japanese import - some of which perform = nearly the same. --Apple-Mail=_9B6F9D1D-01D6-408E-B3D6-697FFFD4BA60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Thanks for your suggestions Stephen - I=E2=80=99ll definitely = check out Quicklook again - last time I tried it it didn=E2=80=99t = support EXR=E2=80=99s.

I=E2=80=99ll take definitely take a look at = Switch. 

I=E2=80=99ll also take a look at Opus - I hadn=E2=80=99t = heard of that one before.

Of course I=E2=80=99m aware that Adobe apps (and ffmpeg plus = others) can decode and create ProRes files. I was talking about the = difficulty in previewing renders quickly after having created them. It = doesn=E2=80=99t really appeal to me to have really fast computers that I = have to jump through hoops to do simple things that I do all day long. = (Like render to sequences and then re-render with an audio track, my = deadlines often won=E2=80=99t allow for that anyway).

Currently I use PC=E2=80=99= s for 3D because that=E2=80=99s what they excel at (for me), and I use = Macs for AE, Premiere (a little), Resolve (some), Mocha, Adobe stuff, = and everything else. It works pretty well as I can be = animating/compositing/finishing while the PC=E2=80=99s are rendering and = I can use the Mac where I prefer it. 

AE in my experience will use as much = RAM as you can throw at it - otherwise it doesn=E2=80=99t seem to = utilize more than one GPU and doesn't use multi-CPU=E2=80=99s = efficiently so I=E2=80=99m not sure PC performance is really relevant; = it uses a computer in exactly the opposite way C4D and most other 3D = apps do which can max GPU=E2=80=99s and CPU=E2=80=99s and don=E2=80=99t = need nearly as much RAM. So even with everything else considered, it = kind of makes sense to have different computers optimized for each task = anyway.

The = "only one company=E2=80=9D comment applies to both PC and Mac as far as = I=E2=80=99m concerned; all of the PC vendors are reliant on Windows. = Hardware choices are only part of the equation in my opinion.

Lastly, I just saw those = prices=E2=80=A6. Those CPU=E2=80=99s are pricey. The GPUs might be = interesting with as much RAM as they have (and the fact that you can = link them), but I=E2=80=99m not dropping that kind of money until I have = some cold hard numbers.


Dennis Wilkins  |  c o d e - c o l l e c t i = ve  




On Dec 10, 2019, at 7:55 AM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Dennis,
 
Windows = OS will never be Mac OS and vice versa. But you can get 99% of either on = either.  I move back and forth between both every day (primary = laptop is Apple, primary desktops are Windows). To your points.
 
  1. Quicklook. I don=E2=80=99t know = if does all EXRs, but it does all the production files I used: https://lifehacker.com/how-to-get-apples-quick-look-feature-in-= windows-10-1827277007
  2. ProRes: Vegas, Adobe and others = deliver native. Media Encoder has it so it=E2=80=99s actually simple = (and much faster than on any Mac with a top NVidia GPU to go image = sequence to ProRes. Davinci is coming supposedly but Fusion already has = it. AfterCodecs is there. I=E2=80=99ve been creating problem free ProRes = on Windows for years now.
  3. lightweight, quick to open = video player for the PC that allows easy previewing of video files that = can step through a video frame by frame (and playback ProRes files. = Scratch Player sucks ass. Switch rocks. And Quicklook above works great = with it. http://www.telestream.net/switch/overview.htm
  4. Apple support. I=E2=80=99ve not own dozens of Macs over the = years, only a half dozen. Two died hard motherboard deaths but they were = 7 years old, but that=E2=80=99s average for a computer. Two required = tech support from Apple. Both times underwhelming. If you buy a Windows = box and want Apple like support, you buy something like a Dell Precision = Workstation with Premium support which offers options like 4 hour same = day hardware replacement onsite which is simply not an option with = Apple. You have to haul your box to them (hopefully they are close and = open and lose your machine to downtime). Or a boutique shop like Puget = Systems. Apple is hardly the only company in the world with reasonable = support options. And they are not perfect anymore than any other good = company.
 
As for your point there is no =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80=9D computer = for everyone, it should be balanced by the fact that Apple is only one = company. For a Windows box you have the choice of many, many as well as = building your own. That simply leaves Apple=E2=80=99s side with all = sorts of negatives
 
Stephen
 
 
From: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> 
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 = 2:31 AM
To: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new = MacPro tomorrow.
 
My opinion is that there is no = =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80=99 computer (or platform) for everyone in this = industry - use cases and users vary quite a bit.

As far as the new Mac Pro goes, I=E2=80=99m withholding = judgment until I see how Redshift, Octane and Unity work in their Metal = incarnations on the new machines. It has 4 double-wide full-length = PCI slots so in theory 4 off the shelf GPUs will fit (if anyone can = convince Nvidia to change their mind on discontinuing development on the = Mac I have money to spend)=E2=80=A6These apps/renderers are what = drove me to build two high-end PC=E2=80=99s in the past 2-3 years. I = only use the PC=E2=80=99s for 3D because Windows doesn=E2=80=99t do what = I want or need it to and I find it inferior in general for doing = motion graphics projects.
 

The reason for that are the following workflow issues using = Windows (and I=E2=80=99d love to hear solutions for these if people have = them):

=E2=80=A2 Quick Look replacement that can view all of the = common production graphics files the Mac can in the finder/explorer = window (including EXR=E2=80=99s). I=E2=80=99ve tried all the apps I = can find and wasted a lot of man-hours looking for anything even close. = It doesn=E2=80=99t exist as far as I can tell. I can search, preview, = open and playback source files far quicker on the Mac than I can on = Windows and I do that constantly. (I=E2=80=99ve tried SEER which kind of = works except it=E2=80=99s slow and doesn=E2=80=99t support EXR=E2=80=99s = - so it actually doesn=E2=80=99t work=E2=80=A6)
 
=E2=80=A2 ProRes - I can count on one hand the projects = I=E2=80=99ve delivered in the past 5 years that didn=E2=80=99t require = ProRes for at least one of the deliverables. (This is = overwhelmingly my clients decision for final deliverables including = two of the top PC manufacturers). IMHO it=E2=80=99s the best video codec = available for final delivery, archiving, playback, = etc...(Broadcast/Commercial/Corporate). I know there are ways of viewing = and creating ProRes files on the PC but most of them have had issues and = trying to quickly QC a final deliverable isn=E2=80=99t nearly as = easy as on a Mac.
 
=E2=80=A2 QuickTime - I can=E2=80=99t = believe I=E2=80=99m calling out QuickTime X as a pro for Mac because = other than performance in playing back H264=E2=80=99s it=E2=80=99s a = real step backwards from QuickTime 7 but I don=E2=80=99t know of = any lightweight, quick to open video player for the PC that allows easy = previewing of video files that can step through a video frame by = frame (and playback ProRes files). On Windows I=E2=80=99m currently = using Assimilate SCRATCH Play Premium for video files and EXR=E2=80=99s = but it looks like they=E2=80=99ve discontinued it and it=E2=80=99s = really more than I want or need to just preview files anyway.
 
=E2=80=A2 One company to deal with: If I have an issue with a = Mac, I call Apple; they deal with it - no finger pointing, no what = drivers are you using? etc. nightmare. I had a power supply go out = in a Mac Pro that was 3-4 years outside of warranty in 2008-2010. My = guess is they didn=E2=80=99t have the power supply in stock any longer = so they offered to give me a brand new base level Mac Pro in = exchange; I asked if I could pay the difference and get a high end one = and they happily obliged. I=E2=80=99ll subtract about 4K off of any = perceived Apple tax right there. With the machines I build, it=E2=80=99s = totally up to me to figure out any issues which sucks and takes me away = from what I get paid pretty well to do. (I=E2=80=99ve owned Dells = and it doesn=E2=80=99t get much easier in that case - there=E2=80=99s = still the Hardware/Software/Driver dance you may have to deal with). = I don=E2=80=99t particularly enjoy building or fixing PC=E2=80=99s = - I have other hobbies=E2=80=A6 

There=E2=80=99s more that I could point out but these are the = ones I constantly bump up against using Windows PC's.

I like Gary=E2=80=99s analogy of European VS domestic or = Japanese cars and feel that it=E2=80=99s quite relevant (even though I = currently drive a Ford truck)...

Lastly, in = this thread I see a few comments about the Mac Pro =E2=80=9Ctrash-can=E2=80= =9D being unreliable but mine has not had a single issue; I ordered it = the first day they were available and it=E2=80=99s been running = nearly 24/7 since early 2014 (often running C4D renders with 24 = threads pegged for days at a time)=E2=80=A6
 
 
Dennis = Wilkins
 
 
 


On Dec 9, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> = wrote:
 
> Apple computers may = have a higher initial cost than a =E2=80=9Cwhite box=E2=80=9D machine, = but especially if they were top spec to begin with, their resale value = usually makes up and more for the cost differential
 
I don=E2=80=99t think this math holds = up based on my experience with selling used Macs and high end used DIY = built boxes used for ISR. Mac asking prices for used are higher but = actual sold prices are not that high. And I routinely get 7+ years out = of DIY PC boxes which is exactly what I got out of my Mac Mini. These = components inside are not wildly different here in MTF and Apple = thermals are more problematic on more recent machines.

Yes, a crappy PC box or notebook that was = crappy to begin with is going to be worth zilch in 3 years. But I sold = 2012 and 2013 render boxes that cost around $2K to build for about $600 = to $700. I got a $450 for my late 2012 Mac Mini that was $900 (with = keyboard and mouse) + 16GB of RAM and $1TB SSD (2013 prices on those = parts), just shy of $1500.  
 
My 2018 MacBook Pro seems to be holding about same = depreciation as Dell XPS machines so I don=E2=80=99t see the numbers to = justify it from a TCO.
 
Best,
 
stephen = van vuuren
336.202.4777
 
http://www.insaturnsrings.com/
 
A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 = more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods = and feelings. The theme, what=E2=80=99s behind the emotion, the meaning, = all that comes later.
=E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick
 
From: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 = 7:52 PM
To: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new = MacPro tomorrow.
 
The important thing to consider, = cost-wise, is the TCO - Total Cost of Ownership. Apple computers may = have a higher initial cost than a =E2=80=9Cwhite box=E2=80=9D machine, = but especially if they were top spec to begin with, their resale value = usually makes up and more for the cost differential. For example, I = expect to get 60% of retail for a 2yo machine still under AppleCare. But = even if I keep it - I=E2=80=99m in the process of retiring a 2012 MBP = that=E2=80=99s still quite usable, mainly because the projects I=E2=80=99m= doing now require the 64GB of RAM and top GPU in my new 16=E2=80=9D = MBP. That=E2=80=99s a 7yo machine, still turning out shots. I don=E2=80=99= t think it owes me anything.
 
I=E2=80=99m looking on eBay at prices = for used Dell and HP laptops. Pretty sad, though I guess one could make = the point that one gets to keep the price difference right away rather = than getting it back on resale.
 
 
 
Tim Sassoon
SFD
Venice, CA
 
 



On Dec 9, = 2019, at 4:38 PM, Gary Reisman <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
 
Some people to have = no problems buying new $40k+ European cars that drop $10k in value in a = few years,  just to drive to and from work most of the time a few = hours out of the week,  when they could easily spend half on a = decent domestic or Japanese import - some of which perform nearly the = same.
=

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