From: "Gary Reisman" Received: from st43p00im-ztbu10073601.me.com ([17.58.63.184] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7482734 for ae-list@media-motion.tv; Sun, 22 Dec 2019 23:01:29 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mac.com; s=1a1hai; t=1577052087; bh=IxV7nBMfHNWpKtFB7kyEhyikBiMOmcGPRWuNcrjZW78=; h=From:Content-Type:Subject:Date:To:Message-Id; b=gV3gwRw68J2hza+XyIPI7tSd9GXmE6VwDUsmdncBGHLpw46jZFj+tjseldlVV+50r LALQ/+dWbmAthCTGvQX1n/dS4AkPn964g42ZpumM/aV/yJMINoLuiEUyvkfIGYMsmo XtKHtdDyiAzPEtESKISDHPAs8cRvMDnNx5hIU+pThvVwHhNJXbO1pmtllDSy4RwfhU GazS9TgcfgSvG1Zff9IsWVIBWNeYCKh/8G4QXftLG9mUYIsPx72X8snYhWuscrPKPS FKI8cI0RC13ogM250drSg+CH056kpor07XkkmBPtzGaAZBfdImex+JzRWugpp4albG a1SdHIKJWSe+Q== Received: from [10.5.10.6] (unknown [212.92.112.151]) by st43p00im-ztbu10073601.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A4423820A5A for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2019 22:01:26 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C4329BBA-9793-4C4C-9D20-339D0571A750" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Stupid question about baked in framerates on footage Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 14:01:22 -0800 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3155F886-333A-4A8E-92B4-D8CAE4CBFFBF@mac.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:,, definitions=2019-12-22_05:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1912220199 --Apple-Mail=_C4329BBA-9793-4C4C-9D20-339D0571A750 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 dealing with that kinda footage is the worst (especially when tracking = is involved. Sadly some editors out there, even some who are very talented, are = totally clueless about final frame rate or adding 3:2 pulldown to 24fps = footage, and I=E2=80=99ve seen my fair share of =E2=80=9C12344 footage. (or even worse, SD footage with 3:2 pulldown that=E2=80=99s been merely = blown up to HD without de-interlacing!@#). One little trick that works for me when it comes to the 4th duplicated = frame is to merely drag the 29.97/30fps comp into a 24fps comp and that = generally will show the footage in the proper 24fps frame rate. occasionally the cadence might be off, in which case I might turn that = precomp to 60fps, and then nudge the footage forward or back a frame in = time. and of course worse case scenario, (praying it=E2=80=99s a short clip) = is to manually cut or time-remap out every duplicate frame and pray it = plays back smoothly at 24fps or 30fps. Gary > On Dec 21, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Greg Balint = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Rick.=20 >=20 > Yeah I'm pretty sure my problem is in the recording. My last ditch = effort is going to be to just frame by frame it and then make it forced = 23.976fps or 24 or something and see if that at least gives me = something.=20 >=20 >=20 > ///Greg Balint > //Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer > /321.514.4839 > delRAZOR.com/ >=20 > On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 1:18 PM Rick Gerard > wrote: > First, keyframes in After Effects are based on time not frames. You = can change a comp frame rate from 15 to 60 and a 3 second animation will = still take 3 seconds and there will be not skipped or duplicated frames = in any of the animation. The only way you can end up with duplicate, = blended or skipped frames in an animation of any kind is to open up the = composition settings and set the comp to maintain frame rate when nested = or rendering and then nest the comp in a comp with a different frame = rate. >=20 > The same goes for time remapping. Animate a text layer going from left = to right in 1 seconds, pre-compose, timeremap and change the move to 10 = seconds and NO frames will be duplicated, you will get smooth movement. >=20 > Now let=E2=80=99s address your problem video. Changing the = interpretation of the frame rate of the video changes the timing. If = timing is critical the frame rate of the video must exactly match the = frame rate used to snoot the video.=20 >=20 > If you have a recording from a monitor or video feed that is at 30, = but the original footage is at 23.976 then you end up with funky frames = in the copy. If you are lucky enough to have timecode burned in then you = can check the timing and make sure that 30 seconds is really 30 seconds, = but there is nothing you can do about funky playback. You=E2=80=99ll = have to do your work using the video as a time reference and just not = worry about the reference video. >=20 > This may make your work difficult to look at with a very critical eye, = but if you are just creating graphics and you do not have the original = video to work with, you just have to rely on the timing and send the = client a comp or a render that matches their project specifications. >=20 > I hope that makes sense. If their video is the right length, the = stutters and jerks during playback are not important unless that is the = only source of the video that you have. >=20 > The only way I know of to verify that there are funky frames in the = video is to step through it one frame at a time. Force the video to run = at a specific frame rate by setting the interpretation and step through = one frame at a time using the footage panel. If you get duplicate frames = or blended frames then the problem is in the recording and you must get = your hands on the original video. >=20 > I hope this helps.=20 >=20 >> On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Greg Balint > wrote: >>=20 >> I did try that actually. It is nded up being all over the place, as = the pattern was like a 12234445677 etc. No rhyme or reason other than = both single extra frames and double extra frames dispersed throughout. = Might have been something that was 23.976 then upped to 29.97, then up = again to 30? =20 >>=20 >> I fear I may end up having to remake portions of the graphics. Gonna = be sloppy and not ideal I think.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ///Greg Balint >> //Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer >> /321.514.4839 >> delRAZOR.com/ >> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 9:55 AM Jim Curtis > wrote: >> Have you tried stepping through the footage frame by frame in a = section with motion? This can reveal footage that was converted from = 23.976 to 29.97p, for example, by noting that the cadence is 12344, = 12344... - every fourth frame repeated for one frame. That can give it = a jerky look. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ve encountered this several times. I put it in an NLE, and = manually remove every fourth frame. The result is a shorter clip, but = at least it smooths out the motion. >>=20 >> Obviously, this would present problems with audio. But, you could = take address that with some time-remapping. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:40 AM, Greg Balint > wrote: >> >=20 >> > Hey everyone,=20 >> >=20 >> > I have a video asset that a client provided me from a previous = vendor they had working on their videos.=20 >> >=20 >> > The only version they have is a 30fps clip of graphics and video = that is actually running at some lesser fps than 30. It stutters and = jerks during 30fps playback. I can't say it's 24fps or 23.976fps, but = it's definitely irregular when the frame pauses and doubles happen in = the 30fps asset.=20 >> >=20 >> > I've tried the interpret footage dialogue and tried all the = different drop downs for the fps stuff but nothing seems to make this = smooth.=20 >> >=20 >> > I know this seems like an amateurish question, but I can't figure = out what to do here. Any guidance would be appreciated.=20 >> >=20 >> > Thanks!=20 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > ///Greg Balint >> > //Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer >> > /321.514.4839 >> > delRAZOR.com/ >>=20 >>=20 >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to > >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C4329BBA-9793-4C4C-9D20-339D0571A750 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 dealing with that kinda footage is the worst (especially when = tracking is involved.

Sadly some editors out there, even some who are very = talented, are totally clueless about final frame rate or adding 3:2 = pulldown to 24fps footage, and I=E2=80=99ve seen my fair share of = =E2=80=9C12344 footage.
(or even worse, SD footage = with 3:2 pulldown that=E2=80=99s been merely blown up to HD without = de-interlacing!@#).

One little trick that works for me when it comes to the 4th = duplicated frame is to merely drag the 29.97/30fps comp into a 24fps = comp and that generally will show the footage in the proper 24fps frame = rate.
occasionally the cadence might be off, in = which case I might turn that precomp to 60fps, and then nudge the = footage forward or back a frame in time.

and of course worse case scenario, = (praying it=E2=80=99s a short clip) is to manually cut or time-remap out = every duplicate frame and pray it plays back smoothly at 24fps or = 30fps.

Gary


On Dec = 21, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Greg Balint <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Thanks Rick. 

Yeah I'm pretty sure my = problem is in the recording. My last ditch effort is going to be to just = frame by frame it and then make it forced 23.976fps or 24 or something = and see if that at least gives me something. 


///Greg Balint
//Art Director / = Motion Graphics Designer
/321.514.4839
delRAZOR.com/

On Sat, Dec = 21, 2019, 1:18 PM Rick Gerard <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
First, keyframes in After Effects are based on time not = frames. You can change a comp frame rate from 15 to 60 and a 3 second = animation will still take 3 seconds and there will be not skipped or = duplicated frames in any of the animation. The only way you can end up = with duplicate, blended or skipped frames in an animation of any kind is = to open up the composition settings and set the comp to maintain frame = rate when nested or rendering and then nest the comp in a comp with a = different frame rate.

The same goes for time remapping. Animate a text layer going = from left to right in 1 seconds, pre-compose, timeremap and change the = move to 10 seconds and NO frames will be duplicated, you will get smooth = movement.

Now = let=E2=80=99s address your problem video. Changing the interpretation of = the frame rate of the video changes the timing. If timing is critical = the frame rate of the video must exactly match the frame rate used to = snoot the video. 

If you have a recording from a monitor or video feed that is = at 30, but the original footage is at 23.976 then you end up with funky = frames in the copy. If you are lucky enough to have timecode burned in = then you can check the timing and make sure that 30 seconds is really 30 = seconds, but there is nothing you can do about funky playback. You=E2=80=99= ll have to do your work using the video as a time reference and just not = worry about the reference video.

This may make your work difficult to = look at with a very critical eye, but if you are just creating graphics = and you do not have the original video to work with, you just have to = rely on the timing and send the client a comp or a render that matches = their project specifications.

I hope that makes sense. If their video = is the right length, the stutters and jerks during playback are not = important unless that is the only source of the video that you = have.

The only = way I know of to verify that there are funky frames in the video is to = step through it one frame at a time. Force the video to run at a = specific frame rate by setting the interpretation and step through one = frame at a time using the footage panel. If you get duplicate frames or = blended frames then the problem is in the recording and you must get = your hands on the original video.

I hope this helps. 

On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:17 AM, = Greg Balint <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I did try that = actually. It is nded up being all over the place, as the pattern was = like a 12234445677 etc.  No rhyme or reason other than both = single extra frames and double extra frames dispersed throughout. Might = have been something that was 23.976 then upped to 29.97, then up again = to 30?  

I fear I may end up having = to remake portions of the graphics. Gonna be sloppy and not ideal I = think. 


///Greg Balint
//Art Director / Motion Graphics = Designer
/321.514.4839
delRAZOR.com/

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 9:55 AM Jim Curtis <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Have you tried = stepping through the footage frame by frame in a section with = motion?  This can reveal footage that was converted from 23.976 to = 29.97p, for example, by noting that the cadence is 12344, 12344... - = every fourth frame repeated for one frame.  That can give it a = jerky look.

I=E2=80=99ve encountered this several times.  I put it in an NLE, = and manually remove every fourth frame.  The result is a shorter = clip, but at least it smooths out the motion.

Obviously, this would present problems with audio.  But, you could = take address that with some time-remapping.



> On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:40 AM, Greg Balint <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I have a video asset that a client provided me from a previous = vendor they had working on their videos.
>
> The only version they have is a 30fps clip of graphics and video = that is actually running at some lesser fps than 30. It stutters and = jerks during 30fps playback. I can't say it's 24fps or 23.976fps, but = it's definitely irregular when the frame pauses and doubles happen in = the 30fps asset.
>
> I've tried the interpret footage dialogue and tried all the = different drop downs for the fps stuff but nothing seems to make this = smooth.
>
> I know this seems like an amateurish question, but I can't figure = out what to do here. Any guidance would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> ///Greg Balint
> //Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer
> /321.514.4839
> delRAZOR.com/


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