From: "Tim Sassoon" Received: from sonic306-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.84] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7483171 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:51:29 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1577137887; bh=RB3OqGIthXGFM4CaU5fu8PNIGcvMcZ+kRqEt7dOs3h8=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=bMlDd5sSsrE8fXVgaim59zhMql5ZMhBo6lWj4d1DZrHYDxnyuqao7C/yNg/9AEQgIdqrE7FJmoL6+JqQmG8j49/R/qaRD3xjvMBPWtTr8DjDhsNFNId0UuAu/sz7FeBS40IfrEbntF9NngsrZYHH3I/6qbjbwWOrqYnUWcofigbjqoj8gwzgIg0mk34wd+wTVik8tjkMhoxK8D0aNlilvvG5cNmPk+3P1HN4EqfJWv2GL10VgOcZo1rKp4KBdHGdaR+2dSui3QAXvFbjRq339v02TYRI2ebr10gPAj3tofzNBPI4lSlC3pI1oNuFEKOB/iHpsUn1Iaill8+qg2qLJA== X-YMail-OSG: NbUv60UVM1mSleA33fj_hX2tA37LDYJY4tZBJRuxpm_jwwfiVA7H5NsEZUqDnBr fpQmVM6SgE_1uamy2RHgIUc_8E6Yl9gV3Ej7yVDJbHoVg86EZbZUNghvBZCRpGQD0ueabUMhgiEv vU2ZJ538r6wZlX4KiW4lSq21yfv2Redghsx3guq10tINLlfb5fxIdnlJoh_j9OhTXuWsP9P88aXQ udnRWeBiPfqwo1pEPmbpIqLv8tPgEYDFUCN3QDVH6D41UoeyUcsGZ4k9vFV_JUDN.gGUSKlvWXQO 3o.c_Wr5S_Bq6EDKuyQdCTdz6_bsNcGGLOCq4oeN8jezxTZy62lD4p7kJDhxOj9yij.7nG1pSZC_ WrqWAXitjTXyTtIeakkNEHNZfmRXGfoId6OORTKhbVtt_KqwCPmb0szXpRtlBiGepM7ohXmYp4EZ FG_NY24CwOBbTW5Efkku83.2yayaT.Ncsqmmb8WZNsMq0VTcFGRBe2pCDo2n6Cl0oDIUYepNr0Aj V4L9uvFDMaQRx4sn_GD.SKSLJm_RrWY7_BfyqsGQUcNGd_ZEoEJ_ErDiTEUiHNLzWad7vf4hLx6s Q6hAKwDhqIB4ImzfoABvzncqfwzWX780sin2UwGk0IPZWzz6qZpLxGiSXFeHFn3NmpK1tU41X6u. xajseW.xzHbjlgW28cV8pDFRUCSd5.gaqAB67pL8U9fJQXR8osgE9.VGzBJ9lEVokG6xHH5XksQY 4moh1EOJu6MywCrpwhacgQyTsf7MrUhJK5etotyu7DyrQAvmczzO_Fn_1L9iYSuJtbnLKvZYgiS4 T8yYcMh7B_C4pTmtgzgTyTtEVcIU00xZjMMedbdUGz.S1vJE9w4rLl9ns70g5C94xJzWxLBPaaM3 ayGaPrhEDEPRyUuC6O.jJPbujwrMx.dCDzOadungUKqJhjgHm..50MciMA7NlstW4g5dMpEaRBup q7MltEkk6xEEO44giiEIPMbfV4BELq7IL8t9IGI8zP67UsuWwFy65X74fV5d1eddsFMFud6APM3Q iavGRH_nR.f4wriNQ3YvpCFVmDPhELVTW7Y.V7rLnFyzcnjXD1y7_F2BNwH9xzKEVK.zqHEuU34w DNlnIHaEUlxCNFtAV0Q6fbmRf3PNBFmiihL0P5r75xf.rdePe8phKNjZsyyN8EEuk8UB4zOE8hVh F9XFc5IP4rrE0r5nIxiEnkTlVhPkOD8dfUwkv9loFvxfwtMdT_VMeIrEm8a8VLwRoIQNVHsYAccO mW9_Ssl3pd7taENIApzzC3ACs8o4XfaZAz1DSAPHMIoBRsqEYSL3GthNQ3pvtNwuhqDHDLlTD1eW 9ROQ3KAoF8a_einzr_tGb25wjFj0WMjRRIqJ2Irk- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 21:51:27 +0000 Received: by smtp423.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 9bf86e8d0b53cc2545e9c3a1a70de91a; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 21:51:25 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C1820128-8C31-4167-A5BF-74970AA97AE6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Must watch Mac Pro models Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:51:23 -0800 References: To: AE List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Content-Length: 23270 --Apple-Mail=_C1820128-8C31-4167-A5BF-74970AA97AE6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Another option to consider is the new MBP 16=E2=80=9D, fully loaded. The = iMac Pro is basically a 2017 model, not terrible with the 5K 500-nit P3 = display, but the MBP 16=E2=80=9D with an 8-core i9 max GPU and 64GB RAM = and 2GB SSD boot drive is $4300, including a 2560x 500-nit display that = may be a hair too Retina for small type. A lot for a laptop, but it=E2=80=99= s a powerhouse, specially with 64GB RAM - I can easily run projects that = blow up a 32GB machine in Fusion/Resolve or Nuke, and there are a lot = more of them these days. I wouldn=E2=80=99t hesitate to grade a 4K = feature with lots of comp shots on it. Plus you can take it anywhere :-) = I got one of each this year. A similarly-equipped iMac Pro (to the MBP 16=E2=80=9D, so base model, = pretty much) is about $5800, and Mac Pro similar $7800, without a = display. Apple=E2=80=99s best bang for buck, though, has long been the = Mini. No display, but similarly equipped (6-core i7) only $3200 with = 10GE on board. Crappy graphics (because so many people buy them for file = servers - very reliable), but get an eGPU for it. Tim Sassoon Venice, CA > On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Steve Oakley = wrote: >=20 > with the benchmarks coming in, a loaded i9 imac for less than 1/2 the = price and a free 5K monitor equals the base mac pro, or even the next = CPU ver up. At least for CPU performance. On GPU the iMac Pro has some = better BTO that keeps it in the same playing field as the MP2019 for = less and still includes the free 5K screen. imac regular BTO options = are also GPU competitive with base model. The only way a MP2019 could = sort of make sense is to get a stripped base model, then upgrade the = CPU, RAM and SSD yourself=E2=80=A6=20 >=20 > S >=20 >> On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = > wrote: >>=20 >> If you have not seen this two looks at a complete hardware teardown = and test of PCIe expansion options, they are must view: >> =20 >> https://youtu.be/xQGfVFpMpuQ >> =20 >> & >> =20 >> https://youtu.be/I0PnVHHTX1E >> =20 >> Mixed bags of news for those thinking buying base model and = upgrading. RAM, yes, CPU, yes, PCIe SSDs, yes with some caveats. GPUs = and other cards, YMMV. >> =20 >> The one thing missing is unclear how Apple will respond to all of = these upgrades =E2=80=93 only the memory and approved PCI cards/storage = kit(s) is clear from what I can tell. >> =20 >> It does appear there is a lot of wisdom in waiting the first round = out to see if third party (especially internal cables) and hack world = opens up the box. >> =20 >> And absolutely confirms that the thing is ridiculously overengineered = with crazy markup margins, so unless you are going to load it with top = end config, that engineering goes to waste. It=E2=80=99s simply = impossible to configure a reasonable price performance rig out of it at = this time. >> =20 >> Best, >> =20 >> stephen van vuuren >> 336.202.4777 >> =20 >> http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ >> http://www.sv2dcp.com/ >> http://www.sv2studios.com/ >> =20 >> A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 more like music than like = fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, = what=E2=80=99s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. >> =E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick >> =20 >> From: After Effects Mail List >=20 >> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 11:44 AM >> To: After Effects Mail List > >> Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new MacPro tomorrow. >> =20 >> Dennis said: "As far as the new Mac Pro goes, I=E2=80=99m = withholding judgment until I see how Redshift, Octane and Unity work in = their Metal incarnations on the new machines." >> =20 >> This is totally where our motion department is right now. We're = running propped up cheesegraters with 1080 cards in them, would probably = all prefer to use OSX if we could, but it's going to come down to = support for the software we need to use. Which, in addition to AE, is = C4D, Octane, Redshift, Houdini, and a little bit of Nuke and = Maya/Arnold. >> =20 >> =46rom the day of the announcement, I was worried about them not = having Nvidia cards and how that is going to play out with a bunch of = software companies that have larger user bases on Windows/Nvidia to = support. >> =20 >> We actually have the budget to spend a bunch of money on computers = but its just feeling so hard to justify the Mac Pro for reasons in = addition to price. Very curious to see what the price differential for = comparable hardware ends up being. It's not even a question which way = I'd go if it was my own money. >> =20 >> This has been a good discussion to read. Thank y'all, >> - Nathan >> =20 >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 8:35 AM Mike Abbott > wrote: >> =20 >>=20 >> On 10/12/2019 15:55, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: >> Windows OS will never be Mac OS and vice versa. But you can get 99% = of either on either. I move back and forth between both every day... >> =20 >>=20 >> The other life saving application on Windows: Directory Opus: = https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ >> >> Think of it as Windows Explorer with a PhD. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Mike >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C1820128-8C31-4167-A5BF-74970AA97AE6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Another option to consider is the new MBP 16=E2=80=9D, fully = loaded. The iMac Pro is basically a 2017 model, not terrible with the 5K = 500-nit P3 display, but the MBP 16=E2=80=9D with an 8-core i9 max GPU = and 64GB RAM and 2GB SSD boot drive is $4300, including a 2560x 500-nit = display that may be a hair too Retina for small type. A lot for a = laptop, but it=E2=80=99s a powerhouse, specially with 64GB RAM - I can = easily run projects that blow up a 32GB machine in Fusion/Resolve or = Nuke, and there are a lot more of them these days. I wouldn=E2=80=99t = hesitate to grade a 4K feature with lots of comp shots on it. Plus you = can take it anywhere :-) I got one of each this year.

A similarly-equipped iMac Pro (to the = MBP 16=E2=80=9D, so base model, pretty much) is about $5800, and Mac Pro = similar $7800, without a display. Apple=E2=80=99s best bang for buck, = though, has long been the Mini. No display, but similarly equipped = (6-core i7) only $3200 with 10GE on board. Crappy graphics (because so = many people buy them for file servers - very reliable), but get an eGPU = for it.


Tim Sassoon
Venice, CA





On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Steve Oakley <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

with the benchmarks = coming in, a loaded i9 imac for less than 1/2  the price and a free = 5K monitor equals the base mac pro, or even the next CPU ver up. At = least for CPU performance. On GPU the iMac Pro has some better BTO that = keeps it in the same playing field as the MP2019 for less and still = includes the free 5K screen.  imac regular BTO options are also GPU = competitive with base model. The only way a MP2019 could sort of make = sense is to get a stripped base model, then upgrade the CPU, RAM and SSD = yourself=E2=80=A6 

S

On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:48 PM, = Stephen van Vuuren <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

If you = have not seen this two looks at a complete hardware teardown and test of = PCIe expansion options, they are must view:
 
https://youtu.be/xQGfVFpMpuQ
 
&
 
https://youtu.be/I0PnVHHTX1E
 
Mixed = bags of news for those thinking buying base model and upgrading. RAM, = yes, CPU, yes, PCIe SSDs, yes with some caveats. GPUs and other cards, = YMMV.
 
The one = thing missing is unclear how Apple will respond to all of these upgrades = =E2=80=93 only the memory and approved PCI cards/storage kit(s) is clear = from what I can tell.
 
It does appear there is a lot of wisdom in waiting the first = round out to see if third party (especially internal cables) and hack = world opens up the box.
 
And absolutely confirms that the thing is ridiculously = overengineered with crazy markup margins, so unless you are going to = load it with top end config, that engineering goes to waste. It=E2=80=99s = simply impossible to configure a reasonable price performance rig out of = it at this time.
 
Best,
 
stephen = van vuuren
336.202.4777
 
http://www.insaturnsrings.com/
http://www.sv2dcp.com/
http://www.sv2studios.com/
 
A film is =E2=80=93 or = should be =E2=80=93 more like music than like fiction. It should be a = progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=E2=80=99s behind the = emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.
=E2=80=93Stanley = Kubrick
 
From: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv> 
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 = 11:44 AM
To: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>Subject: Re: [AE] We can order a new = MacPro tomorrow.
 
Dennis said:  "As far as the new = Mac Pro goes, I=E2=80=99m withholding judgment until I see how Redshift, = Octane and Unity work in their Metal incarnations on the new = machines."
 
This is totally where our motion department is right = now.  We're running propped up cheesegraters with 1080 cards in = them, would probably all prefer to use OSX if we could, but it's going = to come down to support for the software we need to use.  Which, in = addition to AE, is C4D, Octane, Redshift, Houdini, and a little bit of = Nuke and Maya/Arnold.
 
=46rom the day of the announcement, I was worried about them = not having Nvidia cards and how that is going to play out with a bunch = of software companies that have larger user bases on Windows/Nvidia = to support.
 
We actually have the budget to spend a bunch of money on = computers but its just feeling so hard to justify the Mac Pro for = reasons in addition to price.  Very curious to see what the price = differential for comparable hardware ends up being.  It's not even = a question which way I'd go if it was my own money.
 
This has been a good discussion to = read.  Thank y'all,
 - Nathan
 
On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at = 8:35 AM Mike Abbott <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

 

On 10/12/2019 15:55, Stephen van Vuuren wrote:
Windows OS will never be Mac OS and vice versa. But you can = get 99% of either on either.  I move back and forth between both = every day...

 

The other life = saving application on Windows: Directory Opus: https://www.gpsoft.com.au/

Think of it as Windows Explorer with = a PhD.

 

Mike



= --Apple-Mail=_C1820128-8C31-4167-A5BF-74970AA97AE6--