From: "Teddy Gage" Received: from mail-ot1-f41.google.com ([209.85.210.41] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7483174 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 23:31:03 +0100 Received: by mail-ot1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 66so23842742otd.9 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:31:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=HYxBDxDKXbVXMR1Jyp2gHt+ColBfu9tbN7baYLBIF3Q=; b=Ou6uDeWEtWGnkB3gYtP7dqugIgXbHzh1TFTK8xTdbmifTtRuoF6Du5S/KMV2nsLBCG c+rtEiVU6x61ApVEeilgmSiows3Z3/vZ6PxpTE9eTlWSR1IBteoYtmcC9B8TiLfxPBaf ZvIRnOoe4w/ukJdVWi4Ou74ieBKEXvc8eZDIyoL6xAyGz4DSimqGJe1jeCD9vQkMJrb/ HA8bwiVXjuYyF5M2mmYS69ygQjNmScUF2gO2WENyLXmCWVtHdNrF3ivMaO98LhHtkbNL taXpKN9CuYgbPoC+JGx8284IdxI4VDMhmRaeFOfwE5pLGYmKQnYMPhWN6AhVsSJchCsX Lv6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=HYxBDxDKXbVXMR1Jyp2gHt+ColBfu9tbN7baYLBIF3Q=; b=lyS9WzVZheziORdVoP6SaXvJaUVX2al1wnBSo6Yjiqz8SgvkXrzA3xwafomYUKpIgh /tWcJ7JkLdEFtqrtObMuowcN5fYt5qIl0sPDLvfOi8hxTk5TmEd1jiWUe/t68x2ryK7g HvBWplPjM8VCLJX/bULNORH2IyqIFCTEztm6qS9sz3c9W6rSRXzOTiWm5xsU+cmq0fqF 7uEyRsQMvdDMum82NGKXkXZAOlZKXTSavZV1ZX7H3A9nKmCp1MWPZaW3xvUyjcFOFQgL VZlGarTs1tf3akEGjvbE75wk/FcpU56XIIp7mINAuQsPUqToSmp3Q/kz6HUk1oVHse42 Zdow== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXMUSR/C3Tl/NDHlJapi5MaM/MH1feEf0ozRXO1rj8uJVWKD389 TiQrpMwhIoSNttlw+Z8k2QCkZdCyVYwS4id7cZoAnA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwHMcipaObVTGy2I3Um4S/Vp8qZYeBNa2IjPAexJNc5vLGQ7u0rSstb0C/bU6JPsptQ5FfdS3ZfEFEG2+fVV2s= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:139a:: with SMTP id d26mr35911332otq.75.1577140261661; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:31:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:30:22 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Must watch Mac Pro models To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000eb22f059a6695b1" --0000000000000eb22f059a6695b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3200 for a mini hex core PC with no GPU, that is hilarious. The new Mac Pro clearly makes sense for large facilities doing multiple 8K streams of debayer / transcode / streaming or colorists pushing Resolve. I really don't feel they are a wise business purchase for a solo freelancer, especially for motion graphics, but it's your money. I'm extremely skeptical the metal versions of redshift / octane will be at all usable until 2021, considering how buggy the current production versions are. Anyway, let us know how compatibility with all the major AE plugins goes, Jim. I'm curious. On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 4:52 PM Tim Sassoon wrote= : > Another option to consider is the new MBP 16=E2=80=9D, fully loaded. The = iMac Pro > is basically a 2017 model, not terrible with the 5K 500-nit P3 display, b= ut > the MBP 16=E2=80=9D with an 8-core i9 max GPU and 64GB RAM and 2GB SSD bo= ot drive > is $4300, including a 2560x 500-nit display that may be a hair too Retina > for small type. A lot for a laptop, but it=E2=80=99s a powerhouse, specia= lly with > 64GB RAM - I can easily run projects that blow up a 32GB machine in > Fusion/Resolve or Nuke, and there are a lot more of them these days. I > wouldn=E2=80=99t hesitate to grade a 4K feature with lots of comp shots o= n it. Plus > you can take it anywhere :-) I got one of each this year. > > A similarly-equipped iMac Pro (to the MBP 16=E2=80=9D, so base model, pre= tty much) > is about $5800, and Mac Pro similar $7800, without a display. Apple=E2=80= =99s best > bang for buck, though, has long been the Mini. No display, but similarly > equipped (6-core i7) only $3200 with 10GE on board. Crappy graphics > (because so many people buy them for file servers - very reliable), but g= et > an eGPU for it. > > > Tim Sassoon > Venice, CA > > > > > > On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Steve Oakley wrote= : > > with the benchmarks coming in, a loaded i9 imac for less than 1/2 the > price and a free 5K monitor equals the base mac pro, or even the next CPU > ver up. At least for CPU performance. On GPU the iMac Pro has some better > BTO that keeps it in the same playing field as the MP2019 for less and > still includes the free 5K screen. imac regular BTO options are also GPU > competitive with base model. The only way a MP2019 could sort of make sen= se > is to get a stripped base model, then upgrade the CPU, RAM and SSD > yourself=E2=80=A6 > > S > > On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Stephen van Vuuren > wrote: > > If you have not seen this two looks at a complete hardware teardown and > test of PCIe expansion options, they are must view: > > https://youtu.be/xQGfVFpMpuQ > > & > > https://youtu.be/I0PnVHHTX1E > > Mixed bags of news for those thinking buying base model and upgrading. > RAM, yes, CPU, yes, PCIe SSDs, yes with some caveats. GPUs and other card= s, > YMMV. > > The one thing missing is unclear how Apple will respond to all of these > upgrades =E2=80=93 only the memory and approved PCI cards/storage kit(s) = is clear > from what I can tell. > > It does appear there is a lot of wisdom in waiting the first round out to > see if third party (especially internal cables) and hack world opens up t= he > box. > > And absolutely confirms that the thing is ridiculously overengineered wit= h > crazy markup margins, so unless you are going to load it with top end > config, that engineering goes to waste. It=E2=80=99s simply impossible to= configure > a reasonable price performance rig out of it at this time. > > Best, > > stephen van vuuren > 336.202.4777 > > http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ > http://www.sv2dcp.com/ > http://www.sv2studios.com/ > > A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 more like music than like fict= ion. It should be > a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=E2=80=99s behind the= emotion, > the meaning, all that comes later. > =E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick > > *From:* After Effects Mail List > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2019 11:44 AM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] We can order a new MacPro tomorrow. > > Dennis said: "As far as the new Mac Pro goes, I=E2=80=99m withholding ju= dgment > until I see how Redshift, Octane and Unity work in their Metal incarnatio= ns > on the new machines." > > This is totally where our motion department is right now. We're running > propped up cheesegraters with 1080 cards in them, would probably all pref= er > to use OSX if we could, but it's going to come down to support for the > software we need to use. Which, in addition to AE, is C4D, Octane, > Redshift, Houdini, and a little bit of Nuke and Maya/Arnold. > > From the day of the announcement, I was worried about them not having > Nvidia cards and how that is going to play out with a bunch of software > companies that have larger user bases on Windows/Nvidia to support. > > We actually have the budget to spend a bunch of money on computers but it= s > just feeling so hard to justify the Mac Pro for reasons in addition to > price. Very curious to see what the price differential for comparable > hardware ends up being. It's not even a question which way I'd go if it > was my own money. > > This has been a good discussion to read. Thank y'all, > - Nathan > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 8:35 AM Mike Abbott > wrote: > > > On 10/12/2019 15:55, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: > > Windows OS will never be Mac OS and vice versa. But you can get 99% of > either on either. I move back and forth between both every day... > > > > The other life saving application on Windows: Directory Opus: > https://www.gpsoft.com.au/ > > Think of it as Windows Explorer with a PhD. > > > > Mike > > > > --=20 _____________________________ Teddy Gage President Shotgun Inc. 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX SHOTGUNPOST.COM BKLYN NY 11215 --0000000000000eb22f059a6695b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3200 for a mini hex core PC with no GPU, that is hilarious= . The new Mac Pro clearly makes sense for large facilities doing multiple 8= K streams of debayer / transcode / streaming or colorists pushing Resolve. = I really don't feel they are a wise business purchase for a solo freela= ncer, especially for motion graphics, but it's your money. I'm extr= emely skeptical the metal versions of redshift / octane will be at all usab= le until 2021, considering how buggy the current production versions are. A= nyway, let us know how compatibility with all the major AE plugins goes, Ji= m. I'm curious.=C2=A0

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 4:52 PM Tim Sassoon <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wr= ote:
Another option to consider is the new MBP 1= 6=E2=80=9D, fully loaded. The iMac Pro is basically a 2017 model, not terri= ble with the 5K 500-nit P3 display, but the MBP 16=E2=80=9D with an 8-core = i9 max GPU and 64GB RAM and 2GB SSD boot drive is $4300, including a 2560x = 500-nit display that may be a hair too Retina for small type. A lot for a l= aptop, but it=E2=80=99s a powerhouse, specially with 64GB RAM - I can easil= y run projects that blow up a 32GB machine in Fusion/Resolve or Nuke, and t= here are a lot more of them these days. I wouldn=E2=80=99t hesitate to grad= e a 4K feature with lots of comp shots on it. Plus you can take it anywhere= :-) I got one of each this year.

A similarly-equipped i= Mac Pro (to the MBP 16=E2=80=9D, so base model, pretty much) is about $5800= , and Mac Pro similar $7800, without a display. Apple=E2=80=99s best bang f= or buck, though, has long been the Mini. No display, but similarly equipped= (6-core i7) only $3200 with 10GE on board. Crappy graphics (because so man= y people buy them for file servers - very reliable), but get an eGPU for it= .


Tim Sassoon
Venice, = CA





On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Steve = Oakley <AE-= List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

with the benchmarks coming in, a loaded i9 imac for less t= han 1/2 =C2=A0the price and a free 5K monitor equals the base mac pro, or e= ven the next CPU ver up. At least for CPU performance. On GPU the iMac Pro = has some better BTO that keeps it in the same playing field as the MP2019 f= or less and still includes the free 5K screen. =C2=A0imac regular BTO optio= ns are also GPU competitive with base model. The only way a MP2019 could so= rt of make sense is to get a stripped base model, then upgrade the CPU, RAM= and SSD yourself=E2=80=A6=C2=A0

S

On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Stephen van Vuuren <<= a href=3D"mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv" target=3D"_blank">AE-List@media-m= otion.tv> wrote:

If you= have not seen this two looks at a complete hardware teardown and test of P= CIe expansion options, they are must view:
= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
&
=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0
Mixed bag= s of news for those thinking buying base model and upgrading. RAM, yes, CPU= , yes, PCIe SSDs, yes with some caveats. GPUs and other cards, YMMV.=
=C2=A0
The one thing mi= ssing is unclear how Apple will respond to all of these upgrades =E2=80=93 = only the memory and approved PCI cards/storage kit(s) is clear from what I = can tell.
=C2=A0
= It does appear there is a lot of wisdom in waiting the first round out to s= ee if third party (especially internal cables) and hack world opens up the = box.
=C2=A0
And a= bsolutely confirms that the thing is ridiculously overengineered with crazy= markup margins, so unless you are going to load it with top end config, th= at engineering goes to waste. It=E2=80=99s simply impossible to configure a= reasonable price performance rig out of it at this time.
=C2=A0
Best,
=C2=A0
stephen van vuuren
= 336.202.4777
=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
A film is =E2=80=93 or should be =E2=80=93 more= like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feel= ings. The theme, what=E2=80=99s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that c= omes later.
=E2=80=93Stanley Kubrick
<= /u>=C2=A0
From:=C2=A0After Effect= s Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv<= /a>>=C2=A0
Sent:=C2=A0Tuesday, Decem= ber 10, 2019 11:44 AM
To:=C2=A0After Effects Mail Li= st <AE-List@media-motion.tv>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [AE] We can order a new MacPro tomo= rrow.
=C2=A0
Dennis said:=C2=A0 "As far as the new Mac Pro goes, I=E2=80=99m withh= olding judgment until I see how Redshift, Octane and Unity work in their Me= tal incarnations on the new machines."
=C2=A0
This is totally where our= motion department is right now.=C2=A0 We're running propped up cheeseg= raters with 1080 cards in them, would probably all prefer to use OSX if we = could, but it's going to come down to support for the software we need = to use.=C2=A0 Which, in addition to AE, is C4D, Octane, Redshift, Houdini, = and a little bit of Nuke and Maya/Arnold.
=C2=A0
From the day of the a= nnouncement, I was worried about them not having Nvidia cards and how that = is going to play out with a bunch of software companies=C2=A0that have larg= er user bases on Windows/Nvidia to support.
<= div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san= s-serif">=C2=A0
We actually have th= e budget to spend a bunch of money on computers but its just feeling so har= d to justify the Mac Pro for reasons in addition to price.=C2=A0 Very curio= us to see what the price differential for comparable hardware ends up being= .=C2=A0 It's not even a question which way I'd go if it was my own = money.
=C2=A0
This has been a good discussion to read.=C2=A0 Thank y&#= 39;all,
=C2=A0- Nathan
=C2=A0
= On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 8:35 AM Mike Abbott <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

=C2=A0

On 10/12/= 2019 15:55, Stephen van Vuuren wrote:
Windows OS will n= ever be Mac OS and vice versa. But you can get 99% of either on either.=C2= =A0 I move back and forth between both every day...

=C2=A0

The other life saving applicat= ion on Windows: Directory Opus:=C2=A0https://www.gpsoft.com.au/

Think of it as= Windows Explorer with a PhD.

=C2=A0

<= p>Mike




--
_____________________________
Tedd= y Gage
President
Shotgun Inc.
= 360 VR | MOGRAPH | VFX
= BKLYN NY 11215

--0000000000000eb22f059a6695b1--