From: "Ross Shain" Received: from mail-ua1-f44.google.com ([209.85.222.44] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 7491964 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 14 Jan 2020 00:18:18 +0100 Received: by mail-ua1-f44.google.com with SMTP id 73so4074619uac.6 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:18:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=borisfx.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=/sIk9boZCVaK/yy3LAQ1KhH8O/yy4xJKJmieVIUqUI8=; b=SUNQWZQ4lPHH7xzCXQb/zXzCflHWD0BAfUSFkQEVy+wxEHknI4htsT2+z0mCQvj/Ds VyzrLOgns/Zz++el1FpWUOsK28VhcfmTgRh0Oi6+6FYNfLVAOQVLUHoZMsEPJjPFA10r dELWawbPfteElYjSwz6kNdwfpfa2lC3LOhBbI+ZJuwpMLcj0NJgzxBZ749/i6k8iLJ+4 N1scCMJ72WzITTDuIDFaXqhM5aMRtXgEp+Yu03iXIhdBuJDJqe7Y2xByWjU2DoSuxRDs A64b/uG5hJbPJBRYUMUlmb9Rl6W88G1p6A29iBXbKeTluKbXNAKsD9xc070ztb3AZqsg D2LQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=/sIk9boZCVaK/yy3LAQ1KhH8O/yy4xJKJmieVIUqUI8=; b=a0UAD0CS3V+jg8dGHh2fpIZESEdb0AJy3IKnTtT6UczqZRF2hTRvzFreCfn+c91rUs Sz5X8r7FDZxx5Z5IdgFcK/EFDDhwZ1CngXnLvr2Cw/hhKhSG2gSc1qF323zxxBiJdKob DayBeFEV+fJImYoo9EENO3pk9j5+llLGd58HnuzRJTMaWhMzqC5lET5YFB1E2RVMRiBm vGi+sx/70ZKci0VPQqcXWPHh46PdZutnrN6uGXcYqrjHtjdkp+KNkaL3Rbir75dYccyv GgJoinYv/g1V8tLCq2oqZPuhbUdUaz44p7wNWOK1DekX0vfYc/rkts3CcqKWSmQlc76g L37Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUrzVEKS9kM3YFXpGFChfTQyE6dS3GDZnOVjTtfPiUoZDSUun3v cFglIAOQFOxSwbp5BQ5KwPeF5kZXUvo7MyG/uPjcJjBTneQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwGi4IWGE6eSY7xzpEioq7lyl/UEWWTYU4C+n4ozOMgJ7i0eRFdKlzXBkuaVa+Yw70JN+Bi+/vBdlTZIbQn7aQ= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:301c:: with SMTP id h28mr5522024uab.7.1578957496614; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:18:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 18:18:05 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Keying with multiple masks and zero overlapping To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b39cc7059c0db058" --000000000000b39cc7059c0db058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roei, Thanks for the Mocha suggestions. I saw that you posted to the Mocha user forums and I'll make sure to log the requests. -Ross On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 17:02, Roei Tzoref wrote: > Thank everyone! examining a few approaches led me to these conclusions: > > A. linking splines in mocha and back to Ae works (until you need to > update)... examining the mocha<->ae workflow, I wish mocha splines<->Ae > masks workflow was better so Ross please consider these two features: > 1. copy pasting Ae masks to mocha splines. this way, one could create the > masks in Ae then import them to mocha and not just vice versa (I know moc= ha > import script can do this, but I wish this could be native) > 2. create Ae masks in the mocha plugin could use "update Ae masks" > feature. so if I do an update to my splines in mocha and use "update Ae > mattes" it would update the masks instead of creating new ones (say if th= ey > have the same name) > > B. using Ae's compositing options to mask different instances of the > keying effect in the same layer works also and would solve my accumulatin= g > alpha issue but gets messy pretty quickly. > > C. converting the mattes to luma works to prevent accumulating alpha. my > setup was like you said - use fill set to white, a black solid at the > bottom of each layer using solid composite, then using the lighten blendi= ng > and it works and gives me the max of the alpha area and not combining > alpha. placing on top of the mattes an adj with set matte set to luminanc= e > to convert everything to alpha and then unmult effect gives me perfect > alpha, and on top of that I place the footage with preserve underlying > transparency and I get everything without precomposing :) > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:06 AM Robert Kjettrup > wrote: > >> oh... yes. An idea to get an Max combined matte as Brian mention, is to >> fill all your layers RGB with white and the transparent with black (Soli= d >> Composite set to black), use the Lighten blend mode (works like an Max >> operator) on all these layers to get your new combined B/W matte. Add an >> adjustment layer over all these layers with an Unmult effect (get the >> Mekajiki version), then lastly add your original layer on top over all >> these set to Preserve Underlying Transparency. >> >> >> Den fre. 10. jan. 2020 kl. 00.11 skrev Ross Shain < >> AE-List@media-motion.tv>: >> >>> If you happen to have Primatte Studio (in Continuum) - this is a great >>> keyer that can handle transparencies and includes the Mocha >>> masking internally - so you could mix and masks layers with >>> varying opacity in the one layer. >>> >>> When I read this thread, I was reminded of my earlier days in node-base= d >>> compositing, where it is very useful to pipe your mattes into math comp= s to >>> combine and keep separate from your fill, then bring it all back togeth= er. >>> Node-based systems like NUKE or Fusion really are great for this type o= f >>> compositing. I am sure you could emulate this with AE and channel your >>> masks/mattes separately in their own pre-comps and than combine it all >>> together. >>> >>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 15:41, Robert Kjettrup >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If the mask work is not too complicated to quickly do again in mocha, >>>> then you could do all the masks with linked masks there, and via the M= ocha >>>> plugin get the animated mask paths to copy to the masks on the origina= l >>>> layers? >>>> >>>> but 2 antialiased edges right next to eachother will still not get you >>>> a 100% tight edge, 50% alpha + 50% alpha does not equal 100% alpha. Bu= t >>>> then you maybe could use the Add Alpha blendmodes to get better merge = of >>>> the masks. >>>> This is a case where it actually would be useful to have the option to >>>> render masks an un-anti-aliased (guess that is called aliased :-P) to = get >>>> 100% pixel perfect merge of mask alphas. >>>> >>>> I dont know if it can be used for your case, but maybe a bit of >>>> rethinking of the setup and you could do the keying on 1 layer but usi= ng >>>> the masks as Effect Masks instead? >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> Den tor. 9. jan. 2020 kl. 10.28 skrev Roei Tzoref < >>>> AE-List@media-motion.tv>: >>>> >>>>> Thx Mike, Having a stencil from them for my RGB doesn=E2=80=99t solve= my Alpha >>>>> channel problem. >>>>> >>>>> *Let me explain it in another way:* >>>>> >>>>> I am creating different mattes with semi transparent areas in the >>>>> overlapping and that causes a problem because the create multiplicati= on of >>>>> the alpha information >>>>> >>>>> The ideal way to fix this is if the mask could be perfectly adjacent >>>>> to one another the same way a mask on =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D and its d= uplicate on =E2=80=9Csubtract=E2=80=9D >>>>> work. Only that I have more than 2 masks. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 9:41 Mike Abbott >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Could you add a further copy of the original footage on top of all >>>>>> your keyed layers and enable ' preserve underlying transparency' ? >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Ross Shain* >>> Chief Product Officer / Business Development >>> Boris FX | borisfx.com >>> mobile: +1.646.298.6458 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 *Ross Shain* Chief Product Officer / Business Development Boris FX | borisfx.com mobile: +1.646.298.6458 --000000000000b39cc7059c0db058 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Roei,=C2=A0
Thanks for the Mocha suggestions. I saw= that you posted to the Mocha user forums and I'll make sure to log the= requests.=C2=A0
-Ross


<= br>
On Sat,= 11 Jan 2020 at 17:02, Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
Thank everyone! examini= ng a few approaches led me to these conclusions:=C2=A0

A. linking sp= lines in mocha and back to Ae works (until you need to update)...=C2=A0 examining the mocha<->ae workflow, I wish mocha splines<->Ae ma= sks workflow was better so Ross please consider these two features:
1. c= opy pasting Ae masks to mocha splines. this way, one could create the masks= in Ae then import them to mocha and not just vice versa (I know mocha impo= rt script can do this, but I wish this could be native)
2. create Ae mas= ks in the mocha plugin could use "update Ae masks" feature. so if= I do an update to my splines in mocha and use "update Ae mattes"= it would update the masks instead of creating new ones (say if they have t= he same name)=C2=A0=C2=A0

B. using Ae's compositing options to m= ask different instances of the keying effect in the same layer works also a= nd would solve my accumulating alpha issue but gets messy pretty=C2=A0quick= ly.

C. converting the mattes to luma works to prevent accumulating a= lpha.=C2=A0 my setup was like you said - use fill set to white, a black sol= id at the bottom of each layer using solid composite, then using the lighte= n blending and it works and gives me the max of the alpha area and not comb= ining alpha. placing on top of the mattes an adj with set matte set to lumi= nance to convert everything to alpha and then unmult effect gives me perfec= t alpha, and on top of that I place the footage with preserve underlying tr= ansparency and I get everything without precomposing :)




On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:06 AM Robert Kjettrup <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= ; wrote:
oh... yes. An idea to get an Max combined matte as Brian mention,= is to fill all your layers RGB with white and the transparent with black (= Solid Composite set to black), use the Lighten blend mode (works like an Ma= x operator) on all these layers to get your new combined B/W matte. Add an = adjustment layer over all these layers with an Unmult effect (get the Mekaj= iki version), then lastly add your original layer on top over all these set= to Preserve Underlying Transparency.


Den fre. 10. jan. 2020 = kl. 00.11 skrev Ross Shain <AE-List@media-motion.tv>:
If you happen to ha= ve Primatte Studio (in Continuum) - this is a great keyer that can handle t= ransparencies and includes the Mocha masking=C2=A0internally - so you could= mix and masks layers with varying=C2=A0opacity=C2=A0in the one layer.=C2= =A0

When I read this thread, I was reminded of my = earlier days in node-based compositing, where it is very useful to pipe you= r mattes into math comps to combine=C2=A0and keep separate=C2=A0from your f= ill, then bring it all back together. Node-based systems like NUKE or Fusio= n really are=C2=A0great for this type of compositing. I am sure you could e= mulate this with AE and channel your masks/mattes separately in their own p= re-comps and than combine it all together.=C2=A0

On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 15:41= , Robert Kjettrup <AE-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:
If the mask work is not t= oo complicated to quickly do again in mocha, then you could do all the mask= s with linked masks there, and via the Mocha plugin=C2=A0get the animated m= ask paths to copy to the masks on the original layers?

b= ut 2 antialiased edges right next to eachother will still not get you a 100= % tight edge, 50% alpha=C2=A0+ 50% alpha does not equal 100% alpha. But the= n you maybe could use the Add Alpha blendmodes to get better merge of the m= asks.
This is a case where it actually=C2=A0would be useful to ha= ve the option to render masks an un-anti-aliased (guess that is called alia= sed :-P) to get 100% pixel perfect=C2=A0merge of mask alphas.
I dont know if it can be used for your case, but maybe a bit of= rethinking of the setup and you could do the keying on 1 layer but using t= he masks as Effect Masks instead?=C2=A0

Robert


Den tor. 9. jan. 2020 kl. 10.28 skrev Roei Tzoref <AE-List@media-moti= on.tv>:
<= div>
Thx Mike, Having a stencil from them for my RGB doesn= =E2=80=99t solve my Alpha channel problem.=C2=A0

Let me explain it in another way:

I am creating different mattes with semi transparent ar= eas in the overlapping and that causes a problem because the create multipl= ication of the alpha information

The idea= l way to fix this is if the mask could be perfectly adjacent to one another= the same way a mask on =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D and its duplicate on =E2=80= =9Csubtract=E2=80=9D work. Only that I have more than 2 masks.

On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 9:41 Mike Abbott <AE-List@media-motion.tv>= ; wrote:

Could you add a further copy of= the original footage on top of all your keyed layers and enable ' pres= erve underlying transparency' ?



--

Ross Shain
Chief Product Officer / Bus= iness=C2=A0Development
Boris FX |=C2=A0borisfx.com
mobile: +1.646.298.6458










--

Ross ShainC= hief Product Officer / Business=C2=A0Development
Boris FX |= =C2=A0borisfx.com
mobile: +1.646.298.6458<= /font>






=

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