From: "Steve Oakley" Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.196] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.0) with ESMTPS id 5751399 for IMUG-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 04:09:51 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.4] (cpe-174-103-227-20.new.res.rr.com [174.103.227.20]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mreueus001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MF3BF-1YJ5gK0D4F-00GGeH; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 04:10:00 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BB1B8FAC-477F-448E-B700-E5C05759DC50" Message-Id: <7868D3D0-29E2-4BE8-9943-90196589F4F1@practicalillusions.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2070.6\)) Subject: Re: [IMUG] H.264 editing oddness Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 21:09:58 -0600 References: To: IMUG Maillist In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:XjPkcR49Vfr0e1VKF2IF1RSBDkse3SsQD1PCb4NdodA 9NnHzLXYHTTx/GWBowRC6ERsR+Kz6lS+lJrQ04DWIrPcrcpfqB Vjuj11n+vQrOIMJOB5HvRgPZX+pzc0r2dt7k/hgmKGTojWHErw OV6wcPeAZ8dZ2OXYjzEtTetN8MjN2E7GVWYvor0FBHsklGjLMt wugsSAJAnv5jRd5d/OygqOacYpHjrrY8Ozozz5qS1vKjK4X7Bo i9Pdpd4RJzt3zwHdjKzEVEW5ljjKnxy9e7P+8zMoKa8MSHJncJ ABLCnNA+1mnsEFgYiw8xbvOQzPyN2n7pezeuA5crEFC5HNveFm eHCcfQZrYoP2wA7fJnMtYMsAAKWXjmKCdugyEGd0gCzW3We5Pj xkXQJTweGDIcCM3CKvnXQhIxPZ1AopEQHlyFDbix5r+Tm4PNCw 6XD6E X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; --Apple-Mail=_BB1B8FAC-477F-448E-B700-E5C05759DC50 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 As so Phillip says you could use media browser in PP to select clips, drop them in TL, mark = I/O, export to whatever directly or que into AME. all good. > On Feb 21, 2015, at 7:34 PM, Philip Hodgetts = > wrote: >=20 > I think both PPro and FCP X would re-encode for output, but if you = went to ProRes/Cineform there=E2=80=99d be no quality loss (storage = space, perhaps). > It=E2=80=99s unfortunate that the Swiss Army Knife of media handling = is built on ancient foundations and is officially deprecated but will = likely be with us for at least another couple of OS Revisions. I would so not count on that. I've had people being much more vocal to = me (privately) that QT32 libs are going the dinosaur route sooner rather = than later. that includes a lot of codecs NOT built into AVfoundation or = MediaCore which adobe uses to do media file I/O including directly with = QT files... for now. Of relevance - Mjpeg A & B, Animation, - that touches all you M100 users = who used Mjeg B for output when you didn't have a board in your system. = A number of other old video and audio codecs are going away. You would = be much wiser to start and actually do conversions of clips now rather = than wait.=20 Here is the big hint your codec won't be supported : QT Player X opens = it and converts it to ProRes... Save the file, take the conversion wait = and save the file back out. Perhaps adding Converted or ProRes to the = file name so you know... other more recent codecs including all flavors of DV & photojpeg are ok, = Mpeg2, H.264 as for codecs like M100... since AVfoundation doesn't, at least yet have = a way for a 3rd party to install a codec component to it....I'd start = making plans today rather than waiting. One way of finding them is just = sorting by age. I find anything before about 2003 is worth checking. I = also have a feature request in with the developer of NeoFinder aka = CDfinder to add support to sort files by codec. His code does actually = see codec type, its just not stored in the DB and its not a sort field = for now. He's considering it... if you use NeoFinder, use the = Help->Feedback menu item to send an email to him asking to include sort = by codec in the next release ( or next + 1 ) as it will make your life = much easier in tracking down mov's in old codecs. you may also need to ask a deeper question. Is your cinepak ( or codec = of choice) 640X480 SD clip still important ? if not, it'll fade away = into digital dust way faster than nitrate film stock :( welcome to the = digital abyss... and why I'm not just a vocal but cash supporter of MOX = as a media container + codec : documented, open source, source code = available. Vastly more future safe than some current codecs & containers S >=20 >> On Feb 21, 2015, at 5:16 PM, Diego Schaaf > wrote: >>=20 >> Thanks, Philip >> Will FCPX export without re-compressing? >> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94= - >> Diego Schaaf >> Alpha Productions >> Pasadena, Ca. USA >>=20 >>> On Feb 21, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Philip Hodgetts = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Long GOP formats - like AVCHD - is not QuickTime=E2=80=99s friend. = You correctly hypothesize on the cause - not cutting at I-frame = boundaries, but QT Player doesn=E2=80=99t really understand the concept. >>>=20 >>> You=E2=80=99d get better results in Premiere Pro or FCP X. In FCP X = I=E2=80=99d drop the clip in a timeline, then set in and out points, = export, repeat. The exports will happen in the background while you = continue lining them up. There=E2=80=99s probably a parallel workflow in = PPro and AME. >>>=20 >>> Philip >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Feb 21, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Diego Schaaf = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> For an upcoming project, I=E2=80=99ll need to be able to take = segments out of an AVCHD file and save them as separate movies. The = original files are usually fairly long clips of 30 min - 1 hour and = within the AVCHD file consist of several .MTS streams. >>>>=20 >>>> What works - almost - is the trim function in QT player. I trim off = the pieces I don=E2=80=99t need and save the rest as a separate movie. = That movie plays well in QT Player, but if I watch it in QTPlayer 7 Pro, = I get green flashes all over it. >>>>=20 >>>> I wonder if anyone here knows the inner workings of the QT edit = function. I assume that, in order for it to work, it won=E2=80=99t be = frame accurate but cut at the nearest I-frame. >>>>=20 >>>> Grumble, grumble =E2=80=A6 I really don=E2=80=99t like working with = H.264 much, unless it=E2=80=99s a finished output format=E2=80=A6 >>>>=20 >>>> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80= =94- >>>> Diego Schaaf >>>> Alpha Productions >>>> Pasadena, Ca. USA --Apple-Mail=_BB1B8FAC-477F-448E-B700-E5C05759DC50 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 As so Phillip says

you could use media browser in PP to select clips, drop them = in TL, mark I/O, export to whatever directly or que into AME. all = good.

On Feb 21, 2015, at 7:34 PM, = Philip Hodgetts <IMUG-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

I think both = PPro and FCP X would re-encode for output, but if you went to = ProRes/Cineform there=E2=80=99d be no quality loss (storage space, = perhaps).
It=E2=80=99s unfortunate that the Swiss = Army Knife of media handling is built on ancient foundations and is = officially deprecated but will likely be with us for at least another = couple of OS Revisions.

I would so not count on that. I've had people being = much more vocal to me (privately) that QT32 libs are going the dinosaur = route sooner rather than later. that includes a lot of codecs NOT built = into AVfoundation or MediaCore which adobe uses to do media file I/O = including directly with QT files... for now.

Of relevance - Mjpeg A & B, = Animation, - that touches all you M100 users who used Mjeg B for output = when you didn't have a board in your system. A number of other old video = and audio codecs are going away. You would be much wiser to start and = actually do conversions of clips now rather than wait. 

Here is the big hint = your codec won't be supported : QT Player X opens it and converts it to = ProRes... Save the file, take the conversion wait and save the file back = out. Perhaps adding Converted or ProRes to the file name so you = know...

other = more recent codecs including all flavors of DV & photojpeg are ok, = Mpeg2, H.264

as = for codecs like M100... since AVfoundation doesn't, at least yet have a = way for a 3rd party to install a codec component to it....I'd start = making plans today rather than waiting. One way of finding them is just = sorting by age. I find anything before about 2003 is worth checking. I = also have a feature request in with the developer of NeoFinder aka = CDfinder to add support to sort files by codec. His code does actually = see codec type, its just not stored in the DB and its not a sort field = for now. He's considering it... if you use NeoFinder, use the = Help->Feedback menu item to send an email to him asking to include = sort by codec in the next release ( or next + 1 ) as it will make your = life much easier in tracking down mov's in old codecs.

you may also need to ask = a deeper question. Is your cinepak ( or codec of choice)  640X480 = SD clip still important ? if not, it'll fade away into digital dust way = faster than nitrate film stock :(  welcome to the digital abyss... = and why I'm not just a vocal but cash supporter of MOX as a media = container + codec : documented, open source, source code available. = Vastly more future safe than some current codecs & = containers

S




On Feb 21, 2015, at 5:16 PM, Diego Schaaf <IMUG-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Thanks, Philip
Will= FCPX export without re-compressing?
=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94= =E2=80=94-
Diego Schaaf
Alpha = Productions
Pasadena, Ca. USA

On Feb 21, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Philip Hodgetts <IMUG-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

Long GOP formats = - like AVCHD - is not QuickTime=E2=80=99s friend. You correctly = hypothesize on the cause - not cutting at I-frame boundaries, but QT = Player doesn=E2=80=99t really understand the concept.

You=E2=80=99d get better = results in Premiere Pro or FCP X. In FCP X I=E2=80=99d drop the clip in = a timeline, then set in and out points, export, repeat. The exports will = happen in the background while you continue lining them up. There=E2=80=99= s probably a parallel workflow in PPro and AME.

Philip


On Feb 21, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Diego Schaaf = <IMUG-List@media-motion.tv> wrote:

For an upcoming project, I=E2=80=99= ll need to be able to take segments out of an AVCHD file and save them = as separate movies. The original files are usually fairly long clips of = 30 min - 1 hour and within the AVCHD file consist of several .MTS = streams.

What works = - almost - is the trim function in QT player. I trim off the pieces I = don=E2=80=99t need and save the rest as a separate movie. That movie = plays well in QT Player, but if I watch it in QTPlayer 7 Pro, I get = green flashes all over it.

I wonder if anyone here knows the inner workings of the QT = edit function. I assume that, in order for it to work, it won=E2=80=99t = be frame accurate but cut at the nearest I-frame.
Grumble, grumble =E2=80=A6 I really = don=E2=80=99t like working with H.264 much, unless it=E2=80=99s a = finished output format=E2=80=A6

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94= =E2=80=94-
Diego Schaaf
Alpha = Productions
Pasadena, Ca. = USA
= --Apple-Mail=_BB1B8FAC-477F-448E-B700-E5C05759DC50--